Watershed Differences Between Calvinists and Arminians

Ask Pastor John
Episode: 659

[BatMite]

The key question is: does regeneration precede faith, or does faith precede regeneration? all the other points must logically follow from that. Either I believed in response to God's regenerating me (Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, Edwards, Owen, Henry, Knox), or God regenerated me in response to my believing in him (Arminius, Wesley).

[johndennis]

the night I became Born again. during that day I was not thinking of God, I was not praying to God, I was not trying to decide if I wanted to be a Christian are not, I was like paul, I was going my own way doing my own thing, and then out of no where Christ came to me and changed me!...there was no choice, it was 100%  irresistible LOVING GRACE. all I wanted was Christ, everything in this world at that moment ment nothing to me. All I wanted was Jesus. and it has been a long hard rocky road, but here iam at 58 years old, still believing, still loving, and still wanting nothing but Christ. That happened when I was 24 years old. I just got out of the Army, where I served as a Airborne Ranger, and I was a mean ass hard core, hard drinking S.O.B. So now like I said iam 58 years old and I have been fighting evil all these years, and now iam Half way through seminary. Jesus Christ has done this work in me, I did nothing! it has been all Christ all the way. He just keeps pulling me through this godless evil world of sin, sin that I Hate!!!...Jesus said those who hate there life of sin in this godless sinfull world, shall keep there life. I will keep my life, for I have been Raised up with Christ, and He lives in me.

[HN]

When someone you know gets saved, who do you thank? God? Or the person for being smart enough to come to a right understanding and belief in the gospel?

[Brenda-qoko]

The reason why I finally came to decide that it is God who chooses who will be saved instead of people choosing to have faith is because I have been shown and am convinced that there is the preponderance of clear scriptural passages show that Calvinism has the most Biblical foundation.And I have been shown why the supposed proof passages that Christians who believe the person chooses whether or not they are saved really don't.Those passages like John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9 when exegeted properly in context do not mean what people who purport man-centered soteriology think they mean.

[CharlestonJesus]

I have great respect for John Piper but toward the end Piper ask the question "What was the decisive cause of your faith in Christ? The Calvinist says God the Arminian says myself. No that is wrong. I have heard Arminians say God. But where Calvinist and Arminians differ and this is key to their philosophy. Calvinist believe God has to regenerate (Born Again) first Before you can believe. Regeneration precedes faith. This is the philosophy this is the hub that holds the whole entire Calvinistic system together. The Arminian will say no the gospel is proclaimed and the command given to repent and trust in Christ alone for your salvation. It is more simple and straight forward in the Arminian view. The true test is go to the book of Acts and look at the gospel the apostles proclaimed and the command given. The gospel is simple it is mans philosophy that complicates the gospel.

[justinbouy]

Thank you pastor John, I feel this was careful and fair

[festivalouscalpito]

Before i knew these two doctrines, i experienced God when He showed His irresistible beauty through which led me to surrender my life and be a slave of His glory. Thanks for all our fathers of faith who seeks God and took life sacrificial effort for these teachings. I think we have our own duty in this generation to seek God not basing our faith on anything but on Jesus alone. God bless us!

[Bobepc]

I think Piper defines both sides really well here. Most Calvinists I've heard, like John MacArthur, Sproul, Tim Conway, etc., misrepresent Arminianism by creating straw men and then insulting and beating down that misrepresentation. I appreciate Piper's self-restraint to not descend into that and give it a fair representation.

[davida]

I’m neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist... both have points I agree/disagree with. But I lean more towards Arminianism... the point being, election. Basically calvinists believe that God will cook them their dinner if He wants to... whereas Arminians believe God plants the idea to cook your own dinner, but let’s YOU decide whether you want to cook your meal or not. Obviously this is an analogy but to me, the Calvinism viewpoint makes no sense.

[festivalouscalpito]

i love piper so much. God bless those who seeks Jesus. Starting today, ill stop seeking the doctrines of Armenian and calvinist. I will just read my bible everyday and seek Him alone. Thank God for all these bible translations. But i believe God will talk to me the way He talked to our fathers in faith. Not starting with any doctrines, just know God alone and obey His commandments.

[davidKeever]

Every Christian should read his book Five Points of a greater experience of the grace of God!!

[beelzzebub]

I can't fully accept Calvinism or Arminianism.
- I believe God (through Jesus' sacrifice) alone PROVIDES our salvation
- I believe God is sovereign over all and CAN control all, but does not exercise his sovereignty over our ability to choose him
- We must therefore make the final decisive decision - This does not indicate that salvation is down to us, but rather salvation is PROVIDED by God to ALL, and we choose to elect ourselves
- I do not buy the Arminian mentality of losing your salvation. I would say we HAVE to make the CHOICE to take his gift to be born again, but that we cannot become un-born again.


Conclusion: Salvation is PROVIDED by GOD only, MUST be CHOSEN by us, and is NON-REFUNDABLE! :D
To say the decisive cause of our faith is GOD indicates that we are robots and if God didn't elect you, then you're doomed - this isn't loving!
God IS loving!

[friendyadvice]

"No one can come to me unless my Father draws them"

[MindTheHeart]

The decisive cause of my belief in Christ was ... (drum roll) ...

From my point of view that most blessed day when I asked the Lord to be my Lord from now on and forever, it seemed like I was the one who made the final decision - upon His offer of salvation and everlasting life together with Him. However, in retrospect of what took place (that most blessed day) I now realize that God chose me from eternety - only He knows why - and He was the One who made me do it by breathing life into my "walking dead" soul.

So it seems like a matter of point of view to me: From my point of view I would consider myself an Arminian, but as I try to see the matter from God's point of view I would have to consider myself a Calvinist.

So what does that make me? An Arminian or a Calvinist?

[A_Griffith]

Couldn't Yahweh put a thought into our head and we not even know that He did? So we might think we had that thought independent from Him? Yes. So Arminism is just believing it was an independent thought from Yahweh's power and Calvinism is saying that I merely think it was my thought but after knowing that Yahweh is LORD and in control of everything. I was saved by His grace alone. I do not consider myself one or the other but I think Calvinism is closer to truth.

Side note: It doesn't't truly matter by my estimation what group is right because if you are a follower of Jesus and you repent of sin whether it was your decision or Yahweh's. You are still doing the best you can to live righteous, to love God, and hate sin.

[JusticeBackstrom]

I think starting with explaining thet the five points came from what the Arminians objected to about the Calvinist teaching on salvation helps draw the distinction better than I've seen before.
I've usually come away from these types of videos with the idea thet both sides are saying the same things, in different words.
Of course, you can only say, so much either way without running up against scripture.
I still find myself an Arminian because I believe there's more to belief than faith alone. Faith, as defined in scripture, is inherently supernatural, and God has given each of us a measure of faith, however each must make his own decision, whether to believe, and accept God's grace, and forgiveness, or not.

[kylerittenhouse]

God is so powerful and sovereign that man's free choices can not influence God's destiny. My God is not the ultimate author of sin, it never enters his mind.

[jakelivingstone]

I just don't agree with Piper on his last point at all. I can't consider myself a Calvinist... the idea of a covenant involves two parties. God is obviously sovereign and by his sovereignty decided that humanity has the duty to respond to his call. I don't think "the decisive cause" of faith was MYSELF. I see my faith as a response to God's initial call (and that's not saying that God couldn't force me to believe, of course he could).

[HearGodsWord]

I'd never heard of Arminianism until I read it in one of John Piper's books.

[madmartinline]

I don't think that Jacobus Arminius or his views ever deliberately hurt anyone. Yet John Calvin felt he was justified in having 58 people burnt at the stake for disagreeing with his views.