Michio Kaku: Consciousness Can be Quantified | Big Think

Michio Kaku: Consciousness Can be Quantified
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One of the great questions in all of science is where consciousness comes from. When it comes to consciousness, Kaku believes different species have different levels of consciousness, based on their feedback loops needed to survive in space, society, and time. According to the theoretical physicist, human beings' ability to use past experiences, memories, to predict the future makes us distinct among animals — and even robots (they're currently unable to understand, or operate within, a social hierarchy).
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MICHIO KAKU:

Dr. Michio Kaku is the co-founder of string field theory, and is one of the most widely recognized scientists in the world today. He has written 4 New York Times Best Sellers, is the science correspondent for CBS This Morning and has hosted numerous science specials for BBC-TV, the Discovery/Science Channel. His radio show broadcasts to 100 radio stations every week. Dr. Kaku holds the Henry Semat Chair and Professorship in theoretical physics at the City College of New York (CUNY), where he has taught for over 25 years. He has also been a visiting professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, as well as New York University (NYU).
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TRANSCRIPT:

MICHIO KAKU: In the entire universe, there are two great unsolved problems. The two greatest problems in all of science, first of all, is about the very big. It's about the origin of the universe. Why did it bang? Why do we have an expanding universe? And I personally work on something called the multiverse, which we think is the dominant source of theories that gives us the universe before creation itself-- the multiverse. But there is also the mystery of inner space, not outer space.

And that's the human mind. Where does consciousness come from? And I think that in my book, The Future of the Mind, I try to make a stab at what is consciousness? First of all, let me explain my theory. I have my own theory of consciousness. I think consciousness is the sum total of all feedback loops necessary to create a model of yourself in space, in society, and in time. Now, I'm a physicist. We like to measure things and quantify things. I think there is a unit of consciousness. If consciousness is a sum total of all feedback loops necessary to create a picture of yourself in space, in society, and in time, then the unit of consciousness is a thermostat.

A thermostat has one unit of consciousness, because it has one feedback loop-- measures temperature. Now, a plant has maybe five units of consciousness, because plants have to regulate temperature. They have to regulate humidity, the direction of gravity, when to sprout. So there are maybe five or so feedback loops in a plant. Then we go to alligators. The alligators are masters of the back part of the brain. And then you have maybe several hundred feedback loops that govern space. That's what alligators are very good at.

Their brain, if you look at the parts of the back of the brain, we, too, have the reptilian brain that governs our understanding of space, where we are in space. And then, going forward in time, evolution gave us the monkey brain, the center of the brain, the limbic system. And the limbic system, in turn, governs society. It governs where we are with respect to our elders, our children, other human beings. Pack mentality, wolves, all of them have a developed central part of the brain, the monkey brain. And then the front part of the brain is what distinguishes us from the animals. It is the temporal brain that constantly simulates the future.

Animals don't do that. In fact, animals don't even have much of a memory. When you look at a brain scan of what is the brain doing when it's thinking, thinking hard? What is the brain doing? You find out that the prefrontal cortex is active, and it is accessing memories of the past. You see, animals don't do that. Animals have not much of a memory. They don't see the future, because there's no necessity to see the future. There's no necessity to have much of a memory. In fact, the purpose of memory could be to simulate the future. Animals don't need it.

Why didn't the dinosaurs become intelligent? Well, they didn't need to become intelligent, because we humans sometimes overexaggerate the importance of intelligence. Intelligence is not necessary to live in the forest, but we are maladapted to live in the forest. We don't run very fast. We can't fly. Our skin...

[AkichiDaikashima]

"If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we'd be so simple we couldn't"

[Sighphi]

What's with all the bandages on his right hand?
Is he in some sort of Science Fight Club?

[henrikh]

Doesn't some animals hide foood witch they come back to get later. Isn't that some sort of plan for the future?

[KlarkWaynesRage]

Looks like Dr. Kaku knocked somebody out with a right hook in the the name of science!

[brasilman]

Dr Michio Kaku has a way of explaining things that grabs your attention and make you want to keep listening. I really enjoy listening to him talk.

[hiimathao]

“The doubters said,
"Man can not fly, "
The doers said,
"Maybe, but we'll try, "
And finally soared
In the morning glow
While non-believers
Watched from below.”
― Bruce Lee

If we based life on where we are and not where we can be, we can not make progress, if i said to man who lived 1000 years ago that i can bend a bunch of metal together and fly over the ocean he would say i was crazy, but only time can tell you who was really the crazy one and who was the genius.

[conferencereport]

Physicist cites evolutionary biology and cognitive neuroscience to produce a new theory of consciousness.  What's wrong with this picture?

[samreads]

Dr.Kaku is mixing up consciousness with intellectual complexity. if a brain has evolved differently, is the entity not conscious? Is a snake not conscious of its existence because it doesn't have a pre-frontal cortex? Is an earthworm not conscious of the fact that it exists?

Consciousness is the independent ability of an entity to recognize that it is distinct from its environment.

On a fundamental level, this recognition is ingrained in every living cell. Each cell is independently "conscious" of where it ends, and where the environment begins. Even if it has no well-developed sensory organs, it still is able to recognize on some level that it is a distinct entity, and that there exists (or may exist) something outside of itself.

By this definition, all living cells are conscious at varying levels of complexity. More well developed the brain, more clearly is the self-distinction articulated to itself. So the feedback loops Dr. Kaku speaks about only enables an already conscious entity to better recognize the environment outside it.

Conversely, Artificial Intelligence is not conscious - irrespective of the number of feedback loops we might program as its data input. The machine cannot, in a true sense, *independently* recognize itself as being distinct from its environment. The word "independent" is key here - even if AI's outward behavioral output might indicate that it is aware, if humans or external observers are removed from the picture, then that output is meaningless. By itself, the machine can only execute commands.

This is what makes a living entity fundamentally different - it exists (and self-recognizes its existence) even if there is no other observer around it.

[Greyz]

i think there's more to our consciousness than planning into the future. like being aware that we are conscious beings. that's a big thing. a thermostat may be conscious but it sure doesn't know that. it can't out itself apart from and observe the fact that it's collecting information

[b.alanwallace]

All this is complete conjecture, with no empirical basis. He comments that 20, 000 papers have been published on consciousness, with no consensus whatever. He’s right. And his view is just one more groundless speculation, unsupported by logic or empirical evidence. It’s simply his opinion.

[guy]

Animals do run simulations into the future, they Bury food for consumption at a later date. That's thinking ahead if you ask me.

[ArmgddnX]

Michio loves putting everything into levels.  I wonder how many levels his finger bandages are at.  XD

[andrewcraig]

Saying this guy should stick to String theory is like telling Davinci to just stick with painting.

[jeebersjumpincryst]

he mustve stuck his hand in schroedingers box at dinner time

[xsabirx]

we gotta level up so we can become doctor Manhattan 

[KingThor]

The way I've always seen it, is that people trying to explain consciousness almost always either ignore the brain, or treat it it like a secondary importance.

If consciousness is obviously stored within the brain, then it is reliant upon the brain, I think. There has never been an example of consciousness without a physical brain categorized by science. Therefore, we cannot understand consciousness without also understanding the physical matter in which it resides and is reliant upon, the brain.

[Revoluus]

This is all fair speculation. Smart speculations, but just speculation. It seems overtly simplified. But it does get people to think. So that's a good thing. But in no way is this at all conclusive or even accurate.

Just his opinions on an interesting subject.

[GT]

His answer was very lacking and barely touched upon the major manifestations of conciousness itself. He is a physicist and I dont understand why he dabbles in fields like neuroscience and biology when he has no credentials to. Just because you are a scientist in one field does not mean you can speak in all fields. I always facepalm when people take these folk as authorities on matters outside of their qualifications. Like when people take neil tysons or Dawkins ideas on history and philosophical thought. Its the height of sheepish thinking and appealing to authority in the most illogical of manner.

[WoMDRS]

And level 4 is beyond our ability to comprehend because we are only level 3... Woah

[mnuschke]

Kaku talks about evolution of brain structure, with human brains distinguished by pre-frontal cortex - the seat of rational thinking. Then jumps to talk about "consciousness" as a "mysterious object". This already dismisses the entire mind/brain discussion/debate.

The key question is whether science's limiting to the study of "objects" can actually fully deal with the question of "consciousness" or "awareness" - a subjective, non-material realm (other than ignore or dismiss it).  There are many interesting contributions to the study of consciousness in brain science, but it remains questionable whether scientific study can completely unravel or explain consciousness without missing the most important aspects.  Maybe "you can't get here from there", but it is fascinating to try.