Michio Kaku: Feedback loops are creating consciousness | Big Think

Michio Kaku: Feedback loops are creating consciousness
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One of the great questions in all of science is where consciousness comes from.

When it comes to consciousness, Kaku believes different species have different levels of consciousness, based on their feedback loops needed to survive in space, society, and time.

According to the theoretical physicist, human beings' ability to use past experiences, memories, to predict the future makes us distinct among animals — and even robots (they're currently unable to understand, or operate within, a social hierarchy).
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MICHIO KAKU

Dr. Michio Kaku is the co-founder of string field theory, and is one of the most widely recognized scientists in the world today. He has written 4 New York Times Best Sellers, is the science correspondent for CBS This Morning and has hosted numerous science specials for BBC-TV, the Discovery/Science Channel. His radio show broadcasts to 100 radio stations every week. Dr. Kaku holds the Henry Semat Chair and Professorship in theoretical physics at the City College of New York (CUNY), where he has taught for over 25 years. He has also been a visiting professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, as well as New York University (NYU).

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TRANSCRIPT:

MICHIO KAKU: In the entire universe, there are two great unsolved problems. The two greatest problems in all of science, first of all, is about the very big. It's about the origin of the universe. Why did it bang? Why do we have an expanding universe? And I personally work on something called the multiverse, which we think is the dominant source of theories that gives us the universe before creation itself-- the multiverse. But there is also the mystery of inner space, not outer space.

And that's the human mind. Where does consciousness come from? And I think that in my book, The Future of the Mind, I try to make a stab at what is consciousness? First of all, let me explain my theory. I have my own theory of consciousness. I think consciousness is the sum total of all feedback loops necessary to create a model of yourself in space, in society, and in time. Now, I'm a physicist. We like to measure things and quantify things. I think there is a unit of consciousness. If consciousness is a sum total of all feedback loops necessary to create a picture of yourself in space, in society, and in time, then the unit of consciousness is a thermostat.

A thermostat has one unit of consciousness, because it has one feedback loop-- measures temperature. Now, a plant has maybe five units of consciousness, because plants have to regulate temperature. They have to regulate humidity, the direction of gravity, when to sprout. So there are maybe five or so feedback loops in a plant. Then we go to alligators. The alligators are masters of the back part of the brain. And then you have maybe several hundred feedback loops that govern space. That's what alligators are very good at.

Their brain, if you look at the parts of the back of the brain, we, too, have the reptilian brain that governs our understanding of space, where we are in space. And then, going forward in time, evolution gave us the monkey brain, the center of the brain, the limbic system. And the limbic system, in turn, governs society. It governs where we are with respect to our elders, our children, other human beings. Pack mentality, wolves, all of them have a developed central part of the brain, the monkey brain. And then the front part of the brain is what distinguishes us from the animals. It is the temporal brain that constantly simulates the future.

Animals don't do that. In fact, animals don't even have much of a memory. When you look at a brain scan of what is the brain doing when it's thinking, thinking hard? What is the brain doing? You find out that the prefrontal cortex is active, and it is accessing memories of the past. You see, animals don't do that. Animals have not much of a memory. They don't see the future, because there's no necessity to see the future. There's no necessity to have much of a memory. In fact, the purpose of memory could be to simulate the future. Animals don't need it.

Why didn't the dinosaurs become intelligent? Well, they didn't need to become intelligent, because we humans sometimes overexaggerate the importance of intelligence. Intelligence is not necessary to live in the forest, but we are maladapted to live in the forest. We don't run very fast. We can't fly. Our skin...

[leot]

Feedback loops as the basis for consciousness are pretty similar to Douglas Hofstadter's theory of consciousness, for those who are interested. cf "I am a Strange Loop" and "Gödel, Escher, Bach"

[sanketpatil]

He actually generates hope of a very bright future of humankind.
Actually I feel inspired and motivated after hearing him.

[holdmybeer]

half a bottle of whisky and an 1/8th of shrooms gave me a crazy feed back loop.

[hyperspacejester]

Who needs "science" and "evidence" when we have YouTube comment sections!? Never realised so many people had solved the hard problem of consciousness. 😄😆😅

[SupeHero]

Exactly what Douglas Hofstadter has been saying all of those years

[clearcoat]

Brilliant! I had some vague intuited ideas about consciousness being related to feedback loops and this makes a whole lot of sense.

[LPArabia]

Michio Kuku: "I think consciousness is the sum total of all feedback loops"
Douglas Hofstadter: "Hold my beer"

[WackyConundrum]

That was sad to watch. Michio Kaku tries to provide a solution to a problem he doesn't even understand.

[michaelm]

*Hofstadter:* I made this (feedback loop theory)
*Kaku:* You made this?
*Kaku:* I made this

[AbdouSefiani]

Many Ethologists would dispute his stance on animal consciousness. He should read Frans De Waal's books on Bonobos and Chimpanzees.

[j.lo.]

"Love" is a feedback loop, too. You interact with another beeing. That beeing and its representation interact with you. Love is measured in heat, too. :)

[KevenSandoval]

This is all well and good, but the hard problem of consciousness remains. How the hell does a configuration of physical matter add up to a subjective experience?!

[ricande]

I think that the perfect analogy for the feedback loop and consciousness is you, with your best friend on top of a cliff looking down. The thought of jumping or pushing will go thru your mind. But also the consequences of those actions. Therefore you don't jump, and you don't push your friend.
Instead, you comment on the view, and maybe argue over what you would do the last seconds if you fell down.
Every action at that moment, that your brain can imagine (applicable to the situation from memory). will be thought of. That's the noise of the subconscious brain; completely irrational, and completely normal, and it's done in a microsecond.
Another one.
Take a panic attack for example. I would suggest that this is where the brain can't find an exit from the feedback loop, and keeps running wild, without getting to a reliable conclusion.

[MClaudeW]

Anyone curious about dogs seeing the future. It's their prime focus. They are constantly looking for clues about what may come next. They arent great at mentally modeling the coming future, but they do it.

[nicodemosvarnava]

Well this NOT "his" theory!
Douglas Hofstadter's "I am a strange loop" discusses all the aspects he mentions in
the interview very deeply and he doesn't even refer to it as his theory.

Maybe check the bibliography before claiming possession of theories..

[rabeeet]

I’m a fan of Kaku but honestly this time he just messed up pretty bad. This doesn’t even solve basics of the hard problem of consciousness

[vergildu]

Could someone tell him that intelligence and consciousness are two different things?

[ThatOneScienceGuy]

I saw him once in the NYC Subway. I was looking at him with a look of “he looks familiar” and he sort of just smiled and kept walking.

[dillonkeller]

He should have said he has his own hypothesis about consciousness, not his own theory. It's nitpicky but important.

[frankiecal]

Michio" Why did it bang?" Kaku