How to Answer Internet Calvinists

Dr. Leighton Flowers reads through some objections posted by internet Calvinists on some of his broadcasts in order to demonstrate how we should engage those who disagree with us on this topic... JOIN US FOR A LIVE CONVERSATION!

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[brentonstanfield]

@Soteriology101 - One thing I definitely appreciate about you is that I always think you are polite. It is a credit to the arguments that you make. If nothing else, it at least makes you someone I can listen to even though I disagree.

[meanman]

People tend to get defensive when you go after a foundational block of their ideological world view, as they have made that part of their identity.

[housefamily]

Dr. Flowers! Thank you for answering my questions and for the kind words!

[primeobjective]

Word of advice;
When the disagreement is initiated & the Calvinists ask you questions to Biblical passages, they're NOT asking because they SEEK knowledge and truth, but as a MEANS to promote the 5-points of Calvinism and the philosophy that goes with it.

[steveluibrand]

Leighton, please do not skip the L in TULIP in your proof texting review. I think it is their weakest point and can be the entry point at which a 5 pointer can begin to question his whole system. To me it is close to the most blasphemous point of Calvinism.

[centsam]

Many years ago, as a greenhorn Christian, I set out to learn what separated a cult from a denomination. At that time, the received wisdom held 4 distinct points. The cult began with one man or woman, such as Joseph Smith and Charles Russell, they loved to write, such as book of mormon, pearl of great price, anything by watchtower Bible and tract society, et al, they all devalued Jesus, calling Him brother of lucifer, or merely a perfect man, and so forth, and cults view themselves as the exclusive community of the saved. Jean Calvin, Institutions, a Jesus who did not die for all ringing any bells ?

[melissaschubert]

It’s so great that you engage with all kindly- a true fruit of the Spirit and a reflection of our dear Savior and His care and patience! You are not threatened by others and are secure in truth! Keep it up - a soft answer (but one filled with truth) turns away wrath ☺️

[goodshorts]

My apologies if I have ever spoken ill or without a proper manner towards Calvinists. My heart does deeply worry over how they portray God's character.

[anthonym.]

If you blend the two guys in the thumbnail, you end up with Jeff Durbin.

[JohnQPublic]

In my experience the favorite trickster gambit of your typical Calvinist is to run around like a chicken with its head cut off desperately avoiding the criticism made and the point of contention.
There is only one topic of debate; the doctrines and apologetic of Reformed Theology is a contradictory, inconsistent, incoherent, man-made theology that harms the Church, destroys the Gospel, and blasphemes the nature and character of the GOD of the Bible by painting HIM as an evil monster who whimsically chooses the elect, hates the people he makes prior to Creation, and discriminates against them by denying them any hope of salvation.
The best use of your time is to never allow a Calvinist to distract you away from exposing the fallacy of their man-made theology.
Arguing over Bible verses is a colossal waste of time.

[ACTSVERSE]

No matter how they self-identify, if you believe in ANOTHER GOSPEL than the one given to us in Scripture, you are not a "brother and sister in Christ". It's a modern day perversion of the church to tolerate multiple competing gospels and multiple different natures of God and roll them all up under the banner "Christian". Paul would certainly never have understood this big tent.

[n.holt]

Leighton? Angriest guy he has ever seen? Guess he hasn't seen many people then because Leighton is easily the most loving person toward Calvinists that I have ever seen.

[n.holt]

"Many Calvinists are abusive" is not a stereotype it is her observation. She didn't say all Calvinists are, she is just relating her experience and an experience that many including myself have had. It is true that there are others aside from Calvinists that are abusive, but that isn't the question she was asking. It has been observed by many that Calvinists are particularly mean and aggressive to others Christians and this problem needs to be addressed. No one denies that there are other abusive people that need to be dealt with, but we have to start someone. Saying, well there are other abusive people aside from Calvinists doesn't solve the problem.

[samanthiafarthing]

Question: I would like to find some good, solid Biblical teachers, especially ones that have content on youTube that aren’t Calvinists. It seems like all the good teachers I find are Calvinists. I really enjoy Voddie Baucham, John Piper, and Paul Washer, but I didn’t realize they were all Calvinists until after I started listening to them.
I absolutely love Mike Winger, and I recommend his channel to everyone! Can anyone recommend some other really good teachers who aren’t Calvinists?

[shredhed]

It's interesting Jacob quotes Paul saying, "no one seeks after God". As if that is an exhaustive ultimate statement about every single person who ever lived or will live. Lol

Paul is quoting David in Psalms.

My question for Jacob.
Does the statement include David >as he is seeking God in this Psalm<?

It's self refuting.

In David's kingdom, is it REALLY true that every single person in the world at that time is not seeking God?

What about Samuel?
What about Nathan?
Or Elijah, Elisha, Moses,

When viewed >in CONTEXT< we find that this is hyperbole! Lol

If Jacob, or any calvinist for that matter, would read chapter 2 of Romans they would see that Paul is speaking to JEWS.
Jewish converts and non-converts were the intended recipients of that chapter (2)

Jewish christians at that time didn't want to integrate with gentiles in the church.

Jews of all stripes thought of gentiles as dogs.

What Paul was doing in chapter 2 was pointing out that Jews were as bad, in fact worse, Law breakers than the gentiles.

Paul used, in chapter 3, quotations from their own beloved David to show the sinfulness of these Jews, but a blanket concept that no one CAN ever seek God is refuted by the above line of questioning

So much for an exhaustive description of humanity. Lol

I suggest before any calvinist hangs their hat on a "doctrine" they should read the context in which the verse appears.
Context ALWAYS clears up "one verse" theology. Always 🙂

[sheilasmith]

Amen. ACT like a Christian.
And if an argument is sound, thuggery is not employed.
I've learned to recognize the difference between those desiring truth and those needing to win and will use any language to win.

[Lee-xnby]

The two guys on the front of this clip made me laugh out loud.

[paulchamberlain]

You say we can’t stereotype all Calvinists as abusive, and I agree. I have known some very kind Calvinists.

But there is a reason there are names like “cage stage Calvinism“ and “stealth Calvinism“ and people commonly experience abusive and prideful Calvinists. We can’t just pretend that it’s not a big problem because not all are that way and some non-Calvinists are that way. We can’t just say it’s the Internet or the young; I have experienced this from many Calvinists in person including those who are older.

Also, as Calvinists are quick to point out, behavior flows from worldview and theology. Why wouldn’t the Calvinist descriptions of God attract people who act that way and make people who don’t act that way more likely to act that way? 

A real problem I see with non-Calvinists is their constant excusing of the abusive behavior of Calvinists. Maybe this helps them to ignore it, so they don’t have to deal with it and can just keep hanging out with their Calvinist intellectual buddies? (This is not a judgment of how Soteriology 101 is run, there are all types of ministry approaches, but it is a broad pattern.) Whatever the reason, it gives the impression that most Provisionist leaders care more about being nice to Calvinists than looking out for their fellow Provisionists. And again, maybe this comes from the theology? 

I think taking the Calvinist parameters for soteriology leaves Provisionism with a theology about God‘s love for his enemies and dying for all without Christ’s resurrection and glory and our resurrection (what biblical predestination is referring to). Maybe this makes people more willing to put up with bad behavior from other people and not take so seriously when the innocent suffer, as the soteriology only focuses on Christ’s love for his enemies and suffering for all (Even though it holds the other truths)? A theology that focuses on suffering without glory would seem to produce that.

[evanbirkby]

I agree with you Dr. Flowers, but I believe there is a powerful argument you should try using more often. The irresistible grace of the Calvinist is resistible. God allows us to resist Him. He could force us to believe, but chooses not to force us. The Calvinist is hung up on the idea that God wouldn't be sovereign if we could resist Him. I always like to use my analogy for this concerning a wagon. God can take hold of the wagon handle and provide a drawing force to a person in the wagon. God is drawing the unbeliever toward belief. The unbeliever can't draw himself to God, but God can provide the drawing force. God provisionally provides the draw but the unbeliever has a choice. They can by faith show a willingness to be drawn and watch themselves being moved to belief and salvation, or they can put on the brakes and hold on to sin. The Calvinist will typically reject what I'm claiming, and then realize that they need to prove using the Bible that a person cannot resist. This is impossible logically and Biblically. It would mean denying the people of Israel were stiff necked, or that hearts could be hardened.

[MyLearner]

There is more than one kind of abuse, let’s keep in mind. There’s calling people names outright, insinuating they are stupid for disagreeing with you … this is a kind of coercive speech. But there is also sleight of hand, misuse of language to deceive, etc. these are also coercive speech. And basic dishonesty.