The Ultimate Air Masters Panel Discussion with historians: Must-watch!

Masters of the Air special - panel discussion
With John McManus, Luke Truxal and Jon Short (WW2 Wayfinder)
Part of our Masters of the Air series

In this panel discussion, we look at different aspects of the strategic bombing campaign covered in the Apple TV series and how the series tackled and portrayed the wider war. We will also share details we would have liked to have seen covered in greater detail and look at the possible long-term legacy of the production.

Dr. Luke Truxal is an American military historian who focuses on the application of American air power during the Second World War. He received his M.A. and Ph.D. from the University of North Texas in 2011 and 2018. His teaching fields include Europe in the twentieth century, United States history, United States military history, and United States political history in the twentieth century.

Uniting against the Reich: The American Air War in Europe by Luke W. Truxal

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[davechin]

As the son of a Tuskegee Airmen, and someone who met Lt. Col Jefferson many times when I was younger, it was wonderful to see 332nd Group Mission #49 (Toulon attack) included as it was something i was familiar with. And MotA is the first mainstream media to feature actual DOTA (not just Gen. Benjamin O. Davis), which was wonderful. But I also would have been happy if instead they had shown the 923rd Aviation Engineering Regiment building and maintaining the runways and their living conditiions, etc. And I also would have loved to see an episode on Zemke's Wolfpack.

[nonofinn]

I wanted the Switzerland section in the book brought in. That history shocked me and not many people know about it.

[frederickwiddowson]

Julian Fellowes, writer of Downton Abbey, spoke of the requirements of putting a presentation of reality to TV or movies. It requires a certain treatment of the material that can never satisfy the purist. It has to get an idea across rather than a fact. I have always been impressed by his remarks when I view a historical themed show.

[frederickwiddowson]

This was truly a great panel discussion. I will be coming back to this from time to time.

[jefsantamonica]

Wow! What a bang up job of all of you talking about so many aspects of the miniseries. My knowledge base was on the ground in the ETO, so after reading Don Miller's book I was really anxious to see this. All of you brought such varied and different aspects into your viewpoints. I always miss the live streams as they are just when I'm working, but I so appreciate being able to play them back. I have many thoughts on this series, and not covered in this program, so I'll hold them hopefully for round 2 with John Orloff.
Thanks for all of you participating!

[maul]

Woody/Luke/John/Jon. Great panel discussion even though I have only watched episode one. I am now even more keen to watch the rest! Thanks gents. Bob

[jansohl]

Woody…Super good discussion! You work hard to bring these great guests and to guide the discussion. I always learn and am very appreciative of your efforts! My read on MOTA is positive. I remember being frustrated when Episode 8 ended….I needed more! The episode when Rosie’s plane was the sole survivor rocked me and left me shocked and saddened. From this series I was prompted to research my sister’s navigator father-in-law who was shot down in Oct. 44 with the 384th BG from flak in the middle of the plane. The plane broke in half. He bailed out and was a POW at Stalag Luft 1. I knew he was a POW but never knew the details. I am humbled to have known him. Thank you!

[tonetriv]

What MOTA did best is to put you in the cockpit, the briefing rooms, in the air during vicious flak and fighter attacks. The emotional cost strips your psyche naked against the storm. Flying aeroplanes is inherently risky, and to do it daily when an enemy is actively trying to kill you is beyond harrowing.

I became an aviator at 45 years old because of childhood movies like "Twelve O'Clock High." Scale models, books, actual flights in the B-17, and the airplane at airshows, museums. So I anticipated a lot of the human impact. But none of those drove home to me the devotion of the aviators and ground crew towards getting the war over and done with, despite the cost, like MOTA did.

[lewistrott]

I appreciate Luke's comment about the movie Gettysburg getting him interested in history and specifically the American Civil War. That movie is a gateway for many, and certainly was for me which eventually led me to becoming a licensed battlefield guide. Masters of the Air (or either of the other two shows in this "series") I am sure will also serve as a gateway for many to pursue further study and learn what these men did. That fact in itself outweighs any flaws in this show and makes it all worth well. I enjoyed this discussion very much, thank you.

[leighdee]

Great discussion guys. I loved the show. Of course it could be improved, and obviously many, many more units and aspects of the airwar, but for what it was it was great.

[Rationalskeptic]

Really enjoyed this discussion. I felt this was a fair reflection of the series good and bad. Thanks, Woody, for all your hard work making this possible.

[davidlavigne]

There were so many books written before Don Miller's book that were very accurate about the B-17 war experience. "Flying Forts" by Martin Caiden, "With Wings as Eagles" by Phillip Kaplan, "Shot Down" by Steve Snyder, and "Jump Damn it Jump" by Edward F. Logan. It amazes me we act as though "Masters of the Air" was the penultimate story of the 8th Airforce. I read many of these books as a teenager and as a young man. I wonder that the "WW2 buffs" among us haven't mentioned these? It makes me ask, what has the current generation been taught about the air war in WW2?

[garymiller_]

I really enjoy the panel shows that you hold. It's really interesting listening to people that truly know their history comment on the show, and it is indeed high praise, and puts into context the comments from all the armchair historians negativity (and I include myself in that!).

I'll definitely be re-watching the series with a more open mind soon.

[stevensmith]

Thank you for a very interesting and informative show Jon
Look forward to the next
Neil

[ThrupennyGreen]

For me, up to the flakhouse I thought this was pretty good. After that the story gets lost. From there on it should have followed Rosie’s story getting to 25 missions, I would have like to see more of Quinn’s story getting out of occupied Europe.

[derekperry]

Great Great discussion guys. Enjoyed it immensely. Thanks so much.

[nickdanger]

The pub scene with the RAF was a low point, but i had the same experience in reverse at RAF Chicksands in 1977.
USAF 1974-1980

[davidstevenson]

Simply fascinating and a very balanced view of a very good show that could have been even better. Just thankful it got made, Spielberg and Hanks aren’t going to go on forever and who’s going to pick this subject up in this way.

Also very nice as a Brit to see that pub scene get talked about properly.

[jeffpowers]

Great discussion Woody, and great panel too. I’ve been listening to these guys on podcasts (and YouTube in Wayfinder’s case) a lot recently and they’re a pleasure to learn from. I agree with a lot of what was said, personally I wish 7 and 8 would’ve focused more on the late winter and spring of 44, brought in 8th Fighters a little bit and showed the rise to air superiority and the 8th’s “redemption arc” prior to Overlord. Everyone has a great point about a new wave of people wanting to learn about the air war and I think Luke really hits the nail on the head at the end about people learning the reality of air combat in WW2. On that note here’s a quote from none other than Johnny Egan that I saw recently in Ian Hawkins’ book on Münster - “People who never saw bomber pilots taxi out for a mission in the European theatre of operations during the summer and fall of 1943 really missed seeing boys who were, for a short time, big men. Mind you, all of these boy-men weren't fighters, that is professional soldiers or adventurers. They were people who were in the Air Force for various reasons: better food, better pay, better ratings, better glamour, better kind of discipline, better chance to slug Adolph, better chance of being killed…
These boy-men commanded no less than nine other individuals and booted 4, 000 horses in the tail with their right hand to get their B17's into the air and keep them there in the face of the toughest, roughest opposition mankind has ever faced.” Looking forward to more of this as always.

[MGC]

Great discussion Jon. Great panel guests.