Why Was St. Photius AGAINST The Filioque?! 🤔✝️

[NicholasBalducci-wl]

To say that Photius was the only guy who opposed the Filioque and the Eastern Christians were just okay with it is inaccurate. That's just revisionist history.

[mertonhirsch]

On the contrary, Rome forced it into the Ecumenical Creed to cause a Schism because the Carolingian kings had more power and wanted to take the title of Emperor. Pope Leo III refused to give in to the Carolingian demands to add it in the 800s. The Orthodox knew that the terminology had different connotations locally to put down heresy, but in Greek, it absolutely meant that the Son is the PRE-ETERNAL cause and origin of the Holy Spirit. It makes the Spirit contingent on the Giving of all power to the Son.

[GordonGartrell]

The debates between Orthodox and Catholics have gotten very interesting. For years now, Catholic apologists have said Orthodoxy is essentially Catholic and has valid sacraments. JP2 said the Church is to "breathe with both lungs." The Orthodox don't see it that way.

[kazb]

I'm sure Saint Photios was the only guy who wasn't "cool with it" until the schism. 😂😂😂

[MasonParsons]

How does one stick with decision like this outside of a council decision isn’t that enough evidence for which side to choose I’m currently learning both as a former Protestant looking for a church

[bobbobb]

That’s completely false. In the 5th century, the Spanish church added the word to the creed to be anti Arian, in the 7th and 8th centuries the Frankish and English churches added it to the creed, but Rome didn’t add it until the 11th century, and Rome even refused to add it and condemned the churches that did add it initially. Just read Pope John VIII letter 350, and his letter to Constantinople IV where he condemned those who added the Filioque clause to the creed as falsifiers and enemies to the fathers. Also the eastern patriarchs always condemned the western churches who added the Filioque to the creed.

[lovefingerboard]

"Totally cool with it" is not at all an accurate statement. They didn't consider it as large of an issue as it became, however they did not like how the Filioque was ADDED to the Nicene Creed without calling a council with the east churches as well. After all, it's a rather big change to the creed. Even Maximus the Confessor (580-614) tried to settle disputes that were arising over the issue of the Filioque in the west by explaining it (even though he didn't entirely understand it) by saying that the Latin west meant "from the father through the son" (Which filioque is not, it means "AND THE SON")
The east did not agree with this creed even as early as 600, shortly after its addition to the creed during the Council of Toledo 587 in the west. (A response to a heresy rising in Spain, which is ironic since Arianism was one of the leading factors of filioque becoming at all relevant to the latin west)

My point is, as I am currently reading this history as part of my studies to become a Priest.. to say the east was "totally cool with it", is dishonest. They weren't.

[connormyers]

The first excommunication was done by a Roman Catholic bishop who nailed a letter of excommunication to the
alter in an eastern church

[MarcusMyers-ljbs]

Also, St Photius was not the first person to make a big deal out of the Filioque or claim there was a problem with it. The reason it wasn't a church dividing issue until the ninth century is because St Maximos the confessor in his letter to the priest Marinus says that the "With regard to the first matter [the Filioque], they (the Romans) have produced the unanimous documentary evidence of the Latin fathers, and also of Cyril of Alexandria, from the sacred commentary he composed on the gospel of St. John. On the basis of these texts, they have shown that they have NOT made the Son the cause of the Spirit — they know in fact that the Father is the ONLY cause of the Son and the Spirit, the one by begetting and the other by procession;" (Patrologia Graeca 91)

So the reason it wasn't a huge issue until that time according to St Maximos is because for him, the ROMANS WEREN'T TEAHCING THE FILIOQUE. In fact, he says they use the phrase "in order to manifest the Spirit’s coming-forth (προϊέναι) through him and, in this way, to make clear the unity and identity of the essence…." (Ibid)

He literally teaches almost verbatim what St Photius does, and the reason it became a big issue under St Photius is because the Latins began to DENY what St Maximos says about them.

TLDR St Maximos says the Latins don't actually teach the Filioque, and the reason it becomes a big issue under St Photius is because the Latins begin to deny this.

[CancerousCosmic]

No the filioque was not used by the Roman Pope until the 11th century. St. Maximus details how the clause was seen as troublesome and explained that the latins did not mean it as the Son being the cause of the Spirit, which would later be contradicted at Florence. Seriously I don’t know if you just don’t know these things but this is ridiculous. Also why would Pope Leo III put up tablets in protest against the use of the Filioque in the 9th century if it was already accepted in the whole west?

[josiahalexander]

There’s so many statements here that are factually incorrect.

[Chris-lfsr]

And, no, they were not totally cool with it. They understood the bishop of Rome gives ruling over his sphere of influence in the West. So, no influence over the rest of the Church.

[MarcusMyers-ljbs]

The Filioque was in the creed in areas of the Frankish Empire and in Spain, but was actively RESISTED by Rome until the 11th century.

Also, a big part of the reason St Photius broke communion with Rome is because they were teaching the Filioque and RECHRISMATING CHRISTIANS in Bulgaria. So btw Alex, next time you want to make a big deal about Orthodox "rebaptism, " I suggest you first explain why Latin missionaries were treating Orthodox Christians in Bulgaria as if they were heathens even during a time when Constantinople and Rome were part of the same church.

[Rkr_]

So sad that this is what’s keeping us apart. Then I hear others try to say that Protestants are more aligned with the Orthodox than Catholics. Considering you have some protestant denominations that have no issue with gay marriage and others ok with abortion. That’s insane
We have to choose our battles more wisely. The world is crumbling and this is what we are arguing about.

[St.Irenaeus]

This guy is either a liar or totally ignorant.

[ReadDaGospel]

Fun fact Saint Photios talks about men like him who attack the Fathers and act like ham. He basically says they will be curses. I love you Saint Photios the Great

[americanemperor]

This does not mean that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the son (filioque). By the way, I would LOVE to hear a response from Alex (AKA Voice of Reason) on this comment. The reason why the Eastern Orthodox Church didn't break away from the Latin Rite right away was because the filioque was not a doctrine that spread very quickly but over a period of a few centuries. By the way, what is now the Eastern Orthodox Church did have a major issue with the addition of the filioque; they weren't just "cool with it." St. Gregory of Nazianzus
stated "The Holy Ghost is truly Spirit, coming forth (προϊέναι) from the Father indeed, but not after the manner of the Son, for it is not by Generation but by Procession (ἐκπορεύεσθαι)."

[Pdcjay]

Honestly…it really isn’t a big deal. Everyone agrees the Trinity is the 3 coequal existent forms of the one God. Jesus did send the spirit so technically it went out through him, at least in that instant.

It’s a trivial point to cause a schism and since there was other political stuff going on it makes sense how it happened

[Redpoppyfieldsturnedwheatfield]

I was praying for an answer what more of an answer than this plus there is a leader of the byzantine church in my hometown passaic. You must believe I came in communion with Rome like ever so quick! Thanks bro

[rinkevichjm]

Photius to this day remains excommunicated. He was never restored because he could only be restored by apologizing, which he refused to do. BTW if I was excommunicated, I couldn’t lead a council to restore myself, so neither could Photius.