Tap Out the Newbs Quickly, or else!

Q&A with the coach. Does your BJJ school have an unwritten rule like this?

[alexfage]

If you're new, tap early. Don't try to be tough. Learn. Invest in loss. As a beginner you have nothing to prove except you're teachable.

[Mbq-shbj]

There's a purple belt at my school (I'm a white belt, age 44) and he always wins. BUT he never ever hurts / injures me even the slightest. It's like getting submitted by a friendly pillow — that knows a world of BJJ stuff (it seems, to me anyway). He's an easy-going guy.
And he's a cook by profession.
Win or lose in class? He couldn't care less.

[tagg]

I once asked a BJJ black belt about this and he answered: "There are two kinds of noobs. The kind that need someone to prove to them that jiujitsu 'works' and the kind that need someone to show them they can do this without getting murdered.
The first kind you just wreck shop on. The second kind you let play and then do some sweeps to them and give them some back and forth. The skill is in being able to determine what kind of person a noob is in the first few seconds of that very first roll."

[AeolethNionian]

I've heard of a policy from another channel I don't remember where the guy submits the new guy quick just to show what he can do and then dials it back immediatly to let them work. That way there's respect but the new guy doesn't get discouraged and has an opportunity to learn. He came up with that response because of overly competetive newcomers.

[theMightywooosh]

Gym enforcer, love it! There's always one at every gym!

[ghostdude]

Having watched the video now, I feel like this mentality of "destroy them to prove our power!!" could back fire in way of scaring people.

Sure, some might take up the challenge and strive under that pressure, but some of us (like myself) have a weak will to continue if we feel that the skill gap is so large we may never catch up.

I know martial arts comes with hardship, but I feel as if it should be applied gradually to help some of us weaker in spirit get into the groove first.

[bigguy]

You may recall me asking you about being a huge dude and everyone challenging the big guy, even though I'm just a beginner, et cetera. I left that gym. I got the vibe that no one understood exactly what I meant when I explained that I didn't want to feel like I'm defending a title evey time I just want to learn for an hour, because someone new works up the guts to roll with the giant man every week for a badge of "honor" (but in the process I tapped a black, a purple and two browns as a blue belt, so I learned a LOT, but was always behind on training to roll with everyone). At the new gym, of course I stood out right away, but I didn't have browns and purples coming up to me immediately wanting to roll with me to see if they could "chop the tree down", so to speak. I made it clear from the get-go that I was a beginner and wanted to learn, not to get in a fight every week, again, so to speak. Everyone was very respectful of this. It was a nice change of pace. And yes, as a beginner still, I tap early and often. As I occasionally roll with better and better opponents, I see what my strength is good for, where it should be applied and where it should not, and on more and more occasions, how little it can mean in the face of superior technique, quickness, et cetera. But I'm always learning, and that's the key in my book. Cheers from Chicago!

[gallezzo]

Sometimes I like to appear weak to see how a person will act when he thinks he has the upper hand. Even the teacher has a lesson to learn. Always train and be weary of the person who will go for the throat at the first opportunity.

[GnuReligion]

Great video. The job of a teacher of any competitive game is to motivate the novice by egolessly giving him a chances to win. The real game is to improve both parties.

[ryanblair]

I am a black belt in Judo. Whenever somebody new came in to the dojo, I made it a point to work with them. Especially, since I am a large individual. I wanted to show them that throws work on all sizes, some just work better than others. I never smashed anybody new. During tachi-waza, I would play and give them opportunities. I would also show the ways to negate their attempts. The same thing applied to ne-waza. I would let them get me in pins, arm bars, and chokes. I would also show them the ways I would get out. In my opinion, the best way to teach somebody is to be humble. If they use proper technique, take the fall. It doesn't hurt my ego. And, it may help theirs. Again, this is just my opinion.

[LearnTrainPlay]

my first BJJ session I did not get tapped out quickly but was thoroughly well controlled and was easily made to tap after I started to gas. Needless to say I found I had a lot to learn but was willing to go back and get owned over and over again while still improving. When new guys came I had a chance to control them and make them tap which showed my progression as I found it easy.

[al.mandez]

Similar thing happened in my boxing gym. My coach would make me spar the new guys and tell me to knock them out. I guess he thought that when they would get kod it would make them want to come back and train but most of the time they would just leave and not come back. The one time i tried to go easy on a new guy my coach got pissed and told me to go hard or get outta this gym.

[politicalthoughtexperiment]

Thanks Ramsey. For clarification, there is no strict rule as such. More a preference from the instructor and some of the higher belts. It's not really squishing or beating up all the time. It is more a quick armbar/choke once or twice, then relax and let them play. This way it is clear to them that you can play because I'm letting you play. But I like your advice and completely agree regarding my own training. Since I train ad hoc embarrassment wasn't really the issue more doing my dojo justice. Thanks again :)

[wadiariusrmnt]

Can't go to Hema training because of the quarantine.
Would be interesting to hear your take on Hema, and our attempt at a realistic ruleset for say the swordfish tournament for example.

[jmoletsgo]

"Some people need to be squished." Truer words never spoken.

[ytmhcubed]

You've said a few times (many times?) that training partners should lift each other up, and I think that this is important even if the other person is new. Crushing them may come as a result of their own brashness (in other words, if they're super explosive, I suppose you're allowed to react explosively back, ) but I think the person with the experience should strive to make the experience positive, regardless of who taps out or not. One should at all times intelligently defend themselves, of course, but that encompasses a range of possibilities, of which I think "submit them as quickly as possible" isn't usually the best one.


One possible exception is modern Judo ne-waza where you're very much pressured to submit or pin the opponent as quickly as possible due to the current rules. In that case it's not so much that you're showing them they have something to learn, you're just doing what you're supposed to, to be effective in sport judo. However, even then, why would you go full tournament-level performance on someone that isn't aware of what that even means? I think it's a weird mindset, honestly. Maybe these guys forgot what it's like to be a beginner.

[princegaraad]

You know what, I am gonna subscribe because I am thinking of starting mma. And I occasionally came to listen before but I better sub now because Ramsey got some wisdom here and I am gonna start from the bottom.

Questions what do you guys think of judo?

[OGFITNESS]

Ramsey! hope u holding up well during this pandemic, when i deal with spazzy beginners i tend to crush them right off the bat, mainly because i dont want to get injured though. But i do understand reagarding the whole wanting to show that u have something to offer. There's always a middle ground, some atheletes need to get smash and others just need to be calmed down a bit.

[procow]

It's a known fact if you dont tap out noobs quick they evolve into the cocoon stage

[Metalbass]

When I first was learning Jujitsu it was not at a school or dojo, it was in the basement of a friend of our family who was recently retired from his unique position within the U.S. Navy (my mother and father come from families with very long and well established military tradition). He didn't crush me quickly, he often played, "cat and mouse, " to teach me that what I thought was an advantageous position, or that an attack I thought was wise, in fact was putting me into increased danger, that I was unknowingly exposing myself to be beaten, quickly and often painfully. Every now and then he would just bulldoze me in four or five seconds, to educate me on how far I had to go.