Ayn Rand, a Good Philosopher? | Jordan Peterson

Ayn Rand was a Russian-American philosopher and fictional writer. Jordan sits down to discuss why he prefers her fictional work more than her philosophical.

[edgymurphy]

Ayn Rand was very clear when she said that she likes romantic art the most. In other words, art that does not reflect the world as it is, but shows an ideal of what Man can become.

[SgtBuck]

I was the one to superchat this question in, and I can see what Peterson's saying.
Rand's characters aren't meant to embody "real people, " but rather ideal modes of being. As someone aspiring to be a writer, of fiction or otherwise, The Fountainhead really made me think not about what I write, but for what reasons that I write and what it is that I set out to achieve. It also made me very aware of the differences between, at least in a university setting, the difference between valid criticisms and demands for appeasement. I find the characters of Hank Rearden, Dagny Taggart, Howard Roark, all of them, to be completely unbelievable but nevertheless inspiring.

The focus on individualism, being marooned on a university campus, is a breath of fresh air after being told all day that I should act on behalf of X Group or Y Group when these are groups that I disagree with or outright disdain. I think that being an absolute individualist can potentially be self-destructive, but at the same time there's an unshakeable message of consciousness, of knowing when the demands being brought before you are wrong, and the dangers of altruism.

[xLordOfNothingx]

Peterson didnt really said a word on Rand's philosophy at all. Kinda dodging the question there.

[curtisgiesbrecht]

Waiting for him to address objectivisim.

[hansdemos]

Wow! So first Jordan Peterson says that Ayn Rand's philosophy is bogus (1:10 "I don't regard Ayn Rand as a great mind... I don't think her take on things was sufficiently differentiated and sophisticated") And then he goes on to diss her literary work saying that he enjoyed reading Atlas Shrugged, but (1:45) "I also don't think it is great literature". Skillful hatchet job!

[ju]

It's interesting that he faults Rand for doing exactly what she set out to do (with her fiction). That is, to portray man as he could and should be.

[davidmajor]

I don't regard Jordan Peterson as a great mind. Rand was far superior to Peterson. And he is utterly wrong about Rand not portraying the struggle between good and evil within a person. Has Peterson, the overrated hack, failed to, grasp what Ayn was portraying in the characters of Dominque (The Fountainhead) and Hank Reardon (Atlas Shrugged). Peterson is your typical acadmic hack: He cannot think outside his narrow constraints.

[robhaythorne]

Jordan Peterson couldn't grasp Ayn Rand's most basic premises, let alone her conclusions. He probably hates her most because she wrote a critique of his field of study: "The Psychology of Psychologizing."

[socksumi]

I think there was a lot more subtlety, nuance and internal struggle in Rand's characters than he gives credit for.

[hermanessences]

I'm a fan of Peterson, but what is he talking about? There's a lot of internal battles and struggles within the characters, especially Dagny, the protagonist

[chrisw]

Rand was much more concise in her writing and thought processes than Peterson. No contest, really.

[Wissahickon]

Just because Rand’s ideas weren’t “sophisticated” doesn’t mean they are not highly important. She is stating a simple truth about altruism, which most people can understand, but rarely do they actually implement or master. Most people watching philosophy videos on YouTube probably struggle with putting themselves first above others. If you’re always worried about what other people think, you have that problem. It’s not just about direct actions, it’s what happens in your own mind when it comes to your own likes and interests. It’s basic boundary issues.

[alexno.]

Huge fan of Peterson but his take on Rand is a bit off, she uses her charters as archetypes quite like Peterson would want.

[MontyQueues]

well ive heard many speak but ayn rand was a gem because she was clear on the point about how people always ask others to sacrifice

[Individualist]

“The struggle of good and evil isn’t within her characters.” Not true. The novel was about Dagny coming to the realization that she had to let go of Taggart Transcontinental, that there was no middle of the road, no compromise to be reached between her railroad and her destroyers.

[adurcarret]

I like many of Peterson's opinions but this comment is not what I would have expected of him. Not in his evaluation but in his reasoning. He gives no example, no argumentation, no single fact to point to when she speaks of her as a philosopher. I would have expected something on the nature of 'She says X but this fact contradicts X' but rather he goes as 'I don't regard her a great mind' Why? 'Because her take wasn't sufficiently sophisticated and differentiating' Why? blankout.
I've heard Dr. Peterson go deep and right into the point of several interesting topics but this is not one of them.

[Brakarei]

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but it almost seems like Peterson is simultaneously saying "She didn't differentiate herself enough" while also saying "She didn't write the good/evil struggle the same way as all the other authors".

[Khritik]

That’s your opinion but actually she had great mind of literature, her mind was ahead with time..

[apsingh]

Jordan Peterson clearly does not know what he's talking about. Why is talking nonsense the first, eternal, holy right in today's culture? So, he doesn't like Ayn Rand's heroes or her novels because her heroes are too good, too noble, & her villians too evil, too ignoble. He doesn't like her novels because, according to him, they are too detached from reality - her villains and her heroes don't represent the folks next door. Welcome to Romantic Literature, Dr. Peterson. The purpose of great art, like Rand's, is to show what man can be & ought to be. Not to document studies of depravity or to document the commonplace, the mundane, the boring, the 'things as they are.'

He does not think Ayn Rand is a great philosopher. He's obviously not read her revolutionary Objective Theory of Concepts or her equally revolutionary Morality of Rational Self-interest. It is okay to talk, every man has the right to do so. It is not okay to come across as a human specimen of embarrassment, craving to be heard because one has decided to speak and one ought to be given a me-too hearing. Check your premises, Dr. Peterson; contradictions do not exist.

[paulburger]

Don't like JP's take. The divide was created purposefully to emphasize the philosophy. And there is lots of internal conflict. Hank has internal conflict about what he should do about not loving his wife among many examples.