The Anti-Stoicism of Ryan Holiday’s Self-Help Advice

In this video, I explain why Ryan Holiday is more existentialist than stoic.

[robertvital]

Stoics are not indifferent to life. They are indifferent to their circumstances, and will not let them stand in their way.

[ItsCurtisLife]

Think you’ve misunderstood stoic philosophy. Like the “Alpha Males” have on Instagram and TikTok only you’ve gone the other way, where you think that to be stoic you must role over and accept whatever happens to you. Which is not true, the core concept of stoicism is simply to understand what you CAN and CAN’T control - and how to deal with each situation.

[hunterphfr]

Whatever Ryan is selling it has worked very well for me.

[adels.]

No, you are the one who doesn't understand stoicism. You are portraying stoics as passive people who just accept everything that happens to them without trying to change it. Incorrect. They draw a line, they only apply 'passiveness' or indifference to things that are outside of their control (like death, disease, the weather etc.), they actively fight against things which they don't like that are in their control. The root of stoicism is the understanding of which things are outside of our control, those things we shouldn't try to fight, be upset about or change. But things that are in control (our thoughts and actions) we should fight and change in the way that benefits us or society. Also 'Will you stand up and show us what you're made of'' isn't unstoic at all, in fact that is exactly what the stoics are trying to do (bear whatever life throws at them with dignity and grace). Stoics aren't passive cowards that accept all of their life circumstances, they accept only the ones that they can't change.

[eb]

I’ve looked into Stoicism for 15+ years, both through personal study and academically, and so I was initially happy that it became popularized by those like Ryan Holiday …but lately I’ve seen how it has been rebranded. There are still great teachers like Massimo Pigliucci who present Stoicism authentically. Others have skimmed over the parts that they think makes Stoicism look “soft” because it won’t work for the hustle culture message or other ulterior agendas. Of course one cant deny that discipline is a significant part of Stoicism but it is also a virtue based school of philosophy which can positively affect your social relationships.

Amazing channel btw. Just subscribed! 💁🏾‍♀️

[liketheduck]

I think that I’d take an even harder stance against Holiday. Stoicism for him is a means is making money. He’s fundamentally a sophist who shills philosophy without living it.

However, to your point about “amor fati” I think Epictetus defends Holiday’s position.

“what do you think Heracles would have amounted to if there’d been no great lion, no hydra, stag, and boar, and none of the evil and brutal men he drove off and cleared away? What would he have done if there’d been nothing like that in the world? The answer’s obvious, isn’t it? He’d have wrapped himself up and gone to sleep. In the first place, then, he wouldn’t have become Heracles if he’d dozed his life away in this kind of peaceful comfort. And even if he had, what good would it have done him? What use would he have made of his arms and his strength in general? What would have been the point of his fortitude and nobility if there’d been no difficulties such as he faced, no materials to stir him to action and train him?”

We are not called to be passive but to accept our role (which may be the role of “challenger”) and to live in accordance with nature (to justly act).

Maybe stoicism is existentialist in that within our confines (time, place, gravity, “the ruling principle, ” or the will of the gods) we are challenged to be fundamentally free and “obligated” to act justly and not succumb to injustice (or hurdles that look like fate but are within our control and are “preferred indifferences.”)

Thanks for making great content! Sorry for the wall of text.

[Lolo-ckxb]

Your view of the stoics is much too myopic and you are reducing them to simple caricatures of themselves. In the readings I've done Ryan's views are just one aspect of how to interpret the stoics. This is not a right or wrong issue. This is how to make these things useful in one's life, which I would argue Ryan has done a pretty damn good job of.

[grobolomo]

man what is this channel? hidden gem. undersubbed

[delmerman]

THANK YOU!! I have thought this for years and can’t believe someone finally agrees with me

[colino]

It’s a decent intro to stoicism but with any new skill or belief I have found it beneficial to learn from the people who started it or made it so successful.

One can argue the self-help spin is positive because it would open the philosophy to more people. It goes with the times. Seneca thought it was fitting to have your core beliefs come from your own code of ethics and moral standards, and then align it with the majority of people or society’s typical standards.

[bradlybancroft]

Thank you! This new version of Stoicism, or Broicism, has irritated and interested me for a long time and I could never understand why. Now I understand, its the Existentialism that gets added in that makes it compelling for me.

[philipbagnall]

While I agree that Holiday's marketing of Stoicism is very self-help-ish, this video portrays Stoicism as far too passive. 'Amor fati' is a reminder that we all have only one end, and that we have a duty to live our lives out before we reach that end. Just because we are bound to the ultimate fate of death, it does not mean embracing indifference in the meantime.

[SevenUnwokenDreams]

Ryan Holiday got me into philosophy, but once I started reading the text, I got less and less into what he was selling. Stoicism to me turned out to be very passive and not like what he preaches. He is very self-helpy, and I think he uses his marketing skills, throwing the word "Stocicim" on it as his little edge. Not that he isn't out there motivating and helping people, but again, after reading Meditations and Discourses, they're just not quite the same as what he talks about. Still, I am glad he got me into philosophy, and now that I know classic Stoicism isn't for me, I am looking into what to read next.

[Faenwolf]

It amazes me that this video has not more views and comments. Thanks for challenging. Keep up this important work.

[eggymayo]

Stoicism repackaged as american self help nonsense. You nailed it with this vid

[scottccmaclean]

It seems as if you are conflating stoicism and fatalism. Stoicism teaches to accept the circumstances and move forward towards your duty to be virtuous, not to submit to circumstances and resign.

[LearningandTechnology]

Epictetus, Discourses 4.4-39 “There is only one road to happiness - let this rule be at hand morning, noon, and night: stay detached from things that are not up to you.” I’m not sure I agree with what I think may have been said in this video as it relates to fate. That the Stoics were detached from “everything” and just let fate run its course. I do believe there was at least some element of personal agency involved and that this possibly informs the way we can apply stoic principles to our lives.

While I haven’t read Ryan Hoiday’s books extensively (I think I may have read one and intend to read some) - does he include Seneca the Younger as a Stoic influence as well (which I think is relevant if we are going to disect the philiosphy).

At any rate, if the books help people find something valuable to themselves - then I don’t suppose external labels of what philosophy they promote matters at all (see what I did there? 😂 )

[thedarknight]

I always felt that this guy was off in a way but I could never articulate it myself. Thanks for this video. Yours and Academy of Ideas are my favorite philosophy channels on YT.

[zenthegeneral]

The cool thing about philosophy is that it morphs and changes to suit the times and the needs of it's current practitioners, we learn new lessons from the same teachers over time

[ibrokemachone]

I totally agree with you..True stoics by the way didn't label themselves as such...they were thinkers who survived ordeals..and moved on..