Walter Veith on the Trinity Part 1- Christ Begotten or One of a Kind Son

Walter Veith has said that he wants those who don't accept the Trinity and Jesus being a co-eternal being with the Father to leave the church.
In this video we examine the teachings of Walter Veith and compare them to the teachings of the Bible and Adventist Pioneers with relation to Christ the Son of God.
This is part 1 of 2. Maybe Walter has already stepped off the foundation and left the building Christ built firmly on the rock himself.
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"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." (1 John 1:3)

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David Barron

[davidbarron]

Feel free to comment below regarding this issue of Christ's sonship and what your thoughts are regarding the intolerance that these leaders have towards those who believe in a REAL Father and Son. Remember also, Be nice. BLessings, David.

[hportal]

I believe you are not fair making your point but hiding the real context. After the Great Fiask many nominal adventist abandoned faith in frustration. Some started new groups putting new dates for Jesus coming, and others like the group where Jaime white, Ellen Harmon Gould, Urias Smith and others belonged they remained studying the Bible o discover where was the error. Among those people White, U.Smith and others were antitrinarian in their churches.

Ellen was a Methodist and a Trinitarian. J.White even after married wrote despectively about trinitarianism, it is right.
Ellen for several years didn’t talk about this issue as they were dealing with many other important issues. But in 1898 she started talking about Three person in Deity and she wrote it in her book that year: The Desire of Ages chapter 73.( after that You won't find more discussion from James about the issue. He accepted it as a Revelation) Besides in the same book DA chapter 86 she reafirmed the baptismal formula " In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit"
Relember she died in 1915 in very good mental health

[bmom]

I have been a SDA for years and never realized when the church say "Third person" they meant what they meant.
I only realized it recently and was VERY shocked to realize the church believes in the Trinity as the Catholics.
I have never seen the Holy Spirit as a separate "being"
Neither did the pioneers if you study it yourself.
But has ALWAYS seen it as God and Jesus' Spirit that is in all angles, people and created beings that lead us to God and in truth and give us life.

Trinity=Sunday=Antichrist
GodHead=Sabbath=True God
You cant mix these up.

If the Holy Spirit is a different "person" why isn't He mentioned in Rev 1:1 as a person?(He must have been 3rd in heaven in rank then?)
or in Rev 22:3 He doesn't sit on the throne with God and Jesus.If the Holy Spirit is a person surely in the end He will be on the thone as well as a'person' then to be honoured as well?
The Bible never mention that.
I hear you get voted out of chuch for not believing in the trinity?Yet they are ok with abortion in our official church letter.Maybe we should read our Bibles and SOP ourselves rather than listening to leaders in the church then Gods Holy Spirit can convince us instead of wrong teachings of men.
Always remember it was church leaders that crucified Jesus with Rome and leaders will lead you astray in the end times as well.

[BDB-ltgd]

Pastor Vieth said, "if Jesus has become a **CREATED BEING** than please go and join the Jehovah Witness and don't bother this church anymore." Although Pastor Vieth seemed harsh in the clip you shared, what he said is right. To worship created beings is sin. David you should know this. It is not a "strawman" argument. Romans 1:25 says, " Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen." Scripture and Sister White state repeatedly Jesus is worthy of our worshiped thus it's impossible for Him to be a created being! I am curious, do you believe Jesus is a created being?

God bless everyone!

[memoton]

Sorry, you just cut a declaration and do not show the complete context ...

[maranathasam]

If Christ created all things, he existed before all things. The words spoken in this regard are so clear that no one is left in doubt. Christ was God in his inherent nature, as well as in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, was God over all, and to him be praise, honour and glory for ever. EGW Bible commentary

The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from all eternity as a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the supreme glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly beings, and it was his right to receive the adoring homage of the angels. This was no robbery from God. [Proverbs 8:22-27 quoted]

[MySay]

John 8:24 KJV - 24 I (Jesus speaking) said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Please note that “he” is not in the original Greek and is italicized to indicate that it was supplied by the translators.

Therefore, what Jesus really said here was “I AM, ” therefore making it another declaration of his Godhood that he is a divine, eternal, pre-existent, infinite, perfect Being. Christ is Israel’s God. See Exodus 3:14 and under John 8:58).

Thus the correct translation of Jesus' words.

John 8:24 KJV - 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

[canadiancontrarian]

The Adventist Review 1996 article depicts the plan of redemption as some sort of casual and superficial exchange.
When their 3 gods obliged to agreed roles, it paints such a shallowness if not irreverence to the God that is portrayed in our Bible.
And since they instruct us that it was a sort of theater, they must have record of such from scripture or at least from the pen of the prophetess.
Right?
Will the BRI unearth this 'story' from the incarcerated publications buried in the basement of the EGW estate?
Let's wait and see.
And why would their 3 co-equal gods even come up with a Father/ Son/ Spirit role playing relationship? ...So illogical.
If a triune god was such an unquestionable reality, why doesn't our Bible present their 3 gods as say... 3 brothers? Wouldn't that be more consistent and plausible?
And since it is explained to us as role play, my mind struggles immensely and looks for a illustration to somehow wrap my head around this conundrum of 'agreed upon' actors.
All I can come up with is? ...'the 3 musketeers'. As it was chimed... 'All for one and one for all'.
I choose to make fun of them, since they make fun of God.
In the end?...
Their mountain of lies has fabricated a farcical mockery of divinity.

[johansteyn]

Great video David. I left the ministry about two years ago to go and be a missionary. I have only recently come to the understanding of the Father and the Son. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

I made my "coming out" video just a few days ago. Feel free to watch it and give your opinion. Needless to say, I have upset a few people, but I had to do it.

I'm just glad I was not dependant on the church anymore. People don't understand, but in an unconscious level, it does influence your ability to make a decision.

I have tried everything to get some support from my Conference, Union and Devision, yet failed to get one cent. I could not understand that. Now I'm glad that God is our only true support.

[raulescobar]

“Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[rolandiuxpanzilla]

Wánderfull that you focus on what Walter Veith says, ¿Isn't better to focus on what BIBLE says?

[Daniel-bnzg]

many fools around. Well its very clear since many years that begotten (gr. prototokos) was a title used these days. God gave this title also to david. Its not a biological term, its a title...

[larrybedouin]

If Jesus is not God then you would all be breaking the first of the ten commandments to worship him.

[VernonHowe-rslt]

Before anything was ever Created, even the Universe. Jesus Christ came out of the Eternal Fathers bosom, meaning he was begotten, not created. The Father was first in point of time. He is also greater in that he had no beginning, while Christs personality had a beginning." Thats how God The Father Created all things through his Son. They are two, yet little short of being identical, two in individuality, yet one in spirit, and heart, and character.

[AlineLegault]

I ask you David.. before going public, have you spoken with Walter Veith before going public? and also I think you both believe the same... english is not as precise as other languages, and he, who speaks, and understand creation being a professor of evolution turned a wonderful evangelist has certainly learned creation, and Jesus' birth... spoken with love, and I DO hope you spoke with Walter before going public, lest you are approaching this in a way that is not well, mildly, not right.

[astrid]

What a nonsens! Better listen to Walter, he is right and i am not a seventh day adventist ! I read my Bible!

[sylviasaguan]

Walter Veith is right . I think you are wrong.

[MySay]

The Adventist Godhead and the Catholic trinity are very different doctrines.

[ericfolks]

I cant believe that there are Adventists who claim to be "people of the book" yet fall into this heresy that Jesus was created or literally born. In John 8:58 Jesus says that He is the self existent ETERNAL GOD. No beginning and no end. If you believe that the Father created the Son to be the one to die for sin then you have heresy. What makes the gospel so powerful and true is that it was GOD who was on the cross.
And the idea of a deity (Father) creating or giving birth to a smaller lesser deity (Son) then you have paganism. I Stand with Walter Veith.

"I AM means an eternal presence; the past, present, and future are alike with God. He sees the most remote events of past history and the far distant future with as clear a vision as we do those things which are transpiring daily. We know not what is before us, and if we did, it would not contribute to our eternal welfare. God gives us an opportunity to exercise faith and trust in the great I AM.... Our Saviour says, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad” (John 8:56). Fifteen hundred years before Christ laid off His royal robe, His kingly crown, and left His position of honor in the heavenly courts, assumed humanity, and walked a man among the children of men, Abraham saw His day, and was glad. “Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am” (verses 57, 58)....

Christ was using the great name of God that was given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence. [See Exodus 3:14.] Isaiah also saw Christ, and his prophetic words are full of significance. He says, “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6). Speaking through him, the Lord says, “I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour.... Fear not: for I am with thee.... I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.... Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God. Yea, before the day was I am he.... I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King” (Isaiah 43:3-15).... When Jesus came to our world, He proclaimed Himself, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6)....

The Lord must be believed and served as the great “I AM, ” and we must trust implicitly in Him.12Letter 119, 1895.

[DonjohnsonBG]

Many who believe begotten means created or the two words has similar meaning fail to realize Jesus was the one who spoke the words of John 3:16 So if anyone knows what the word means is Christ himself because he says in John 16:27 “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I CAME OUT from God.”Furthermore the New Testament didn’t exist at this time so they had the writing of Moses(law of Moses); Now look how Moses himself understood what begotten meant as he cried out to God in Numbers 11:11-12 “And Moses said unto the Lord, Wherefore hast thou afflicted thy servant? and wherefore have I not found favour in thy sight, that thou layest the burden of all this people upon me? [12] Have I CONCEIVED all this people? have I BEGOTTEN them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest i unto their fathers?” Does Moses uses the word as creating something or giving birth to? Here’s another one Judges 8:30-31 “And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body BEGOTTEN: for he had many wives. [31] And his concubine that was in Shechem, she also bare him a son, whose name he called Abimelech” it’s evident the Old Testament writers know what Begotten mean.