Debunking the Nordic Socialism Myth

Whenever socialism has been tried, it has failed, and often spectacularly so. When faced with this historical argument, socialists often point to Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and other Nordic countries as their alleged proof that socialism can work. But the truth is, these nations are not "socialist" and they aren't the utopias so many on the Left claim they are. In fact, in some respects, the citizens of these nations are freer than Americans are.

Stopping Socialism’s Justin Haskins and Donald Kendal explain in their latest episode on Stopping Socialism TV.

Base photo credit: Miguelb/WikiCommons. Graphic design by Donald Kendal.

[giggitygoo]

"Nordic countries don't practice socialism."
"Ok then let's advocate for universal healthcare in the US like those countries have."
"NO! THAT'S SOCIALISM!"

[alabama]

Okay, then let's adopt Nordic policies.

[josephhesse]

I love how happiness came from Viking countries.

[Sheepdog]

here are a few factors you need to consider:  Denmark is less than twice the size of Massachusetts - Sweden is about the size of California - Norway is 80% the size of California - you're talking about countries a whole lot smaller than the US

[sampohonkala]

About education these guys are totally lost. The reason the enrollment rate is not any higher in the Nordics despite free college is that the universities are competitive. You get in by merit and there is no way you could buy yourself a slot in college. If you are dumb you are out. Therefore it is fairly stupid to claim that free college is just 4 more years of high school - which in fact is competitive in the Nordics as well. The big and obvious difference in collge in the US and college in the Nordics is that going to college in the US depends more on if you can finance it or not, in the Nordics it depends on how you score in the tests. If you have what it takes you are in, if you don't you are out - and I am not talking about money. They are not going to give you free college degree if you simply don't have the potential.

Another aspect here is the salaries. It is true that the increase in income with a college degree is not that big, exactly as people can accept a less paying job as their college debts are not that big. However, this is not a bad thing but a good thing - companies can hire highly educated people at a reasonable cost. This leads to startups and makes it very easy to start a successfull business and grow fast. You pointed out the low corporate income taxes in the Nordics, the relatively low salaries in companies is another thing that fuels the Nordic capitalism.

[lisaclark]

YT shows this channel as much as they do the Tenth Amendment channel.

[sampohonkala]

Ok it is going even crazier when they start talking about 'moving away from their socilist past'. None of the Nordic countries have ever been socialist. Finland became independent in 1917 and college has always been free of tuition and there has always been free health care. Even the Finnish baby box granted by the government was introduced as early as back in 1938. These benefits have nothing to do with the economy or policies of the 1970's.

[sampohonkala]

In most American videos the Nordic tax systems are not understood correctly, and this video is not an exception. You suggest that a middle class citizen, earning 1, 5 times the average wage, would pay 50% income tax. This is not true. You very likely again mix the marginal tax rate and the income tax rate. The average wage in these countries is around 3500€ a month, which would make something in the range of 50 000$ year. If you make 1, 5 times that, 75 000$, your income tax rate would be around 30%. A 50% income tax rate for middle class people in the Nordics is a myth.

A value added tax (VAT) of 25% in the Nordics is also a myth, except for Denmark. In Sweden and Finland there is a lower VAT rate for groceries (12, 14%) and medicine, magazines, cultural activities (6, 10%). On the other hand, there are products that are taxed way higher, like alcohol and cigarettes, gas. It should also be understood that in most EU countries the VAT rate is over 20%, this is not a special feature of the Nordics, but the norm in Europe.

Despite the incorrect figures and estimating the taxation much higher than what it actually is, you have one basic idea correctly understood - the middle class is paying for the free stuff these countries offer. However, it is also the middle class that is getting what is offered. These are not benefits for the poor, but benefits for the middle class. For most middle class people it would make little difference if they had to pay the college education of their kids out of pocket instead of taxes, but knowing some people may temporarily be low on cash, it seems more fair to pay it through higher taxes. It is also fair that if the parents have made bad choices, the kids don't necessarily have to suffer and lose a better future.

[EmilyGloeggler]

As someone who has worked trade jobs, not all of them are irreplaceable or practical and make no mistake, there are students with debt even for trade/vocational schools as well as other problems caused by either said trade and entrepreneur jobs, as many ex-blue collar people like myself can attest. Of course, no job is for everyone but let’s not pretend that all trade jobs are irreplaceable or practical, let alone beneficial.

[MysTarey]

I wish I could watch the rest but all the ads are making me crazy.

[BifronsCandle]

You’re right, it is. Which is why I want actual socialism. Since you people are so insistent on not passing Nordic Social Democracy anyway.

[jakethebaker]

Yeah, Bernie is a social Democrat. Let’s have what they have there.

Or actual socialism. Both would be cool

[horsehay]

You dudes deserve more than 21 thousand subs, this quality podcast and research is quality like 5 million subs. I had no idea about any of this, and John Stossel has a similar video but it’s too short. And most republicans don’t give enough of the reasons to build the argument, they just say it and go.

[monkeyming]

*Country’s citizens work and trade freely to build up the economy so they can have a good safety net*
People: ITS SOCIALISM BECAUSE THEY HAVE FREE HEALTHCARE! SOCIALISM IS GREAT!

[anthonybevers]

Id like to see you guys do a deeper dive into their health care system verses ours. Is socialized medicine the way to go or is it the privarized system? What does the data say?

[marcusaurelius]

This is the best YouTube Chanel. People need to see this so these commies don’t take over

[eddieschwab]

There's one thing also that the left of this country critically misses concerning socialized medicine in Sweden Denmark Norway and Finland. This critical thing differentiates them from the system that they have in Britain and Canada which is also the stupid they want to force down our throats in America.

Yes the Scandinavian countries have socialized medicine. Socialized financing of the Healthcare System. Tax dollars in those countries which are still quite High pay for the healthcare system that they operate. However they are still not on the aggregate nearly as high as they are in Britain and Canada. The other thing to remember is in Britain and Canada if you are a doctor a nurse and orderly or any other HealthCare Employee, you are an employee of the NHS. That is not the case in the Scandinavian countries, in those countries the hospitals doctors offices and various employees are private employees.. The Healthcare System may be publicly financed, but it is privately administered. The other difference is the scope of coverage that they have in those countries versus Britain and Canada and to me that is the most material difference. If you have a simple cold that won't go away in Britain or Canada you are covered lock-stock-and-barrel, but if you have a tumor, God help you trying to figure out what it is or getting it taken care of. Diagnostic Imaging testing has a long waiting line and even once they know what it is surgeries and other such procedures typically have a long waiting line. In Scandinavia, if you have a minor issue like a persistent cold you may have to Shell out for doctor visit medicine or whatever but if you have a serious problem that is catastrophic in nature in terms of high-cost to figure out what it is much less to treat it, it is covered Lock Stock & Barrel. The problem is not with public financing of healthcare but with public administration of healthcare is where socialized medicine is the problem when it's entirely under the control of the government. We in America may not like the system in Scandinavia if it requires high taxes to support it but their system appears to work well for their people while the British and Canadian system clearly does not.

[sampohonkala]

Norway is wealthy due to drilling oil, this is a fact. Their fund is worth more than $250 000 per capita, more than $1 000 000 for every family of 5. However, none of the social benefits in the Nordic countries depend on that, as Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland have no oil whatsoever. Norway without oil would therefore still have the same social benefits, there would just not be the massive fund.

[dralel]

Yes! You still post ASV! I sent your channel to 4 of my friends and love this content! Think about rebranding your channel name or abbreviating it to avoid the censors.

[froglizard]

Plus if college were free, you would have many people who are not serious attending these colleges and over time would put undue stress and burden on teachers and the quality of knowledge being put out would decrease.