Debunking the myth of Scandinavian socialism

"We have been socialists in Sweden and we have been successful, but never at the same time," says Swedish historian Johan Norberg.

[Valjeandk]

"Nothing much is different than paying straight out of pocket"
Except the healthcare costs half of what it does in the US, people are better educated, public transport works well etc.

[notme]

"Sweden was socialist and Sweden was successful, but not at the same time." What a succinct and informative line.

[jaylewis]

Most in the US do not realize the employer pays half of their tax before cutting the paycheck. Then they pay the other half. Then they pay health insurance before they get paid. Then they pay copays at the doctor’s office. When the totals are fairly compared the difference depends on income levels, with some better and some worse off than they would be in the other countries

[MrMvidz]

The private schools is not a factor in this, they have not added much, other than taxpayers funding venture capitalists.

[latjolajban]

Johan Norberg is kinda disingenious about Swedens economic boom and "socialism". First, Sweden was never socialist. However, the Social Democratic Party held power from 1932 up until 1976 and Sweden was more "socialistic" then than it is now. And Sweden did enjoy an economic boom during that time. One needs to keep in mind that Johan Norberg is very much a kinda right leaning liberal who is quite opposed to anything government.

[CanadianMonarchist]

I understand in Germany (and perhaps also in Sweden), union officials sit on corporate boards. It’s different than the “Us vs Them” attitude of trade unionists in the English speaking world (ie Arthur Scargill).

[marcusaxel]

I think liberals should hold up Switzerland as a model for the US to emulate instead of Scandinavia. I don't know where it stands today but at one time Switzerland was ranked as one of the top Libertarian economies on earth, more Libertarian than the US. They also have socialized medicine. Libertarianism and government funded healthcare are no more incompatible than Libertarianism and a publicly funded military or road infrastructure. It's not that this idea is too extreme or communist, it's that the US has chosen to spend money on endless war instead of healthcare imo.

I'm no expert but from what I've learned about Switzerland, the government pays for basic health coverage for every citizen. This is managed by private insurance companies. They are now allowed to profit from providing basic coverage but they make profit by selling additional coverage to citizens who can afford it. It's not unlike the way the US allows private companies to manage Medicare and Medicaid benefits. This is enough incentive to engage with the market. I would call it Medicaid for All instead of Medicare for All. Of course the US is too in debt from the mismanagement of the last two decades to go this route but it's a better model to debate. If not for Iraq, Afghanistan and many other military misadventures, we could be paying for universal healthcare. IMO, voters in the US have paid a huge price for maintaining the military industrial complex. In this way Libertarians and the real left, as opposed to the Woke left, have a lot of common ground. Democrats aren't liberals, they're proving to be bigger war mongers than Republicans lately.

[cl]

I don’t really care if Bernie Sanders version of socialism was being practiced in Sweden.

If it were, it’s not a system that would be compatible an open borders large diverse population of the US.

[bizzwoofer]

If you want taxes up to your eyebrows Scandinavia is great. Wait a minute, sounds a lot like another country i can think of....

[JohanLind]

Tack Johan!

This was a sublime description of the Swedish political economic development over the last 40 years. Flaws and all. Sweden is not some kind of utopia where all benefits are free. We have to pay for them through our taxes.

[hansbystrom]

He is only partially right. And most comments here are just dumb. We are socialist, and we always have been. We had educational reforms to set a basic standard for all children. We've had healthcare, school lunches, welfare systems, etc. The idea of emancipating women was a very socialdemocratic idea. And the union model of Sweden is a rather good one. There is a reason why we thrive in so many areas such as engineering, music export, academia, tech, military, etc. - we made sure the population was educated and taken care of. The creator of Spotify is the son of a nurse working at the local hospital here; it's not some trust fund kid, just an average citizen. Same thing with Avicii.

[ronobrien]

Sweden has a very homogeneous population which has a more nationalist philosophy than the US.

[merlingeikie]

Academics only know the sleazy, slack and unreal world of being an academic.... No reality there.
👍🏻🇦🇺🙏

[poornoodle]

What was the nation of birth for the largest group of immigrants to Sweden in 2022? Sweden, ie swedish people moving back (about 10%) The next most common countries of birth are India, Poland and Germany. Those four together are about 30% of immigrants. Other European countries together account for about another 15%. Various middle eastern countries for another ca 15%. The remaining 40% come from various countries with less than 1000 people per country. About 100k people arrived. Net immigration is about 50k, so the population grew by ca 0, 5%. GDP grew 2, 8% in 2022.

[TheMichaelMove]

Find me a Scandinavian who thinks they live in a socialist society.

[danielmadeson]

We acknowledge that Sweden isn’t socialist. It is a social democracy aka capitalism with a robust social safety net. Anyone who says otherwise even Bernie is being dishonest, or ignorant.

[dreamweaver]

The county I live in is as big as Sweden in population size. And I wouldn't trust the government employees here to run anything, much less my healthcare. They can't even run our city or county well. That's the big difference between the United States and Sweden. You have nice benefits that everyone pays into and you have competent government that has values and is not corrupt. We just don't have that.

[thoso]

I can show you a flying elephant, for every American that truly understands the social democratic underpinnings of European politics.

[gordonw.]

I don't know how it works in Sweden, but in the Czech Republic, the cost for universal healthcare and social security is huge. Everybody pays 14% of their income on healthcare, 27% on social security and 15% on tax (all from the same base). Also, the current system of social security is a giant ponzi scheme and by sheer math, I, born in 1998 will pay all my working life 27% of my income and will get 0 money at retirement, making the income tax effectively 42%.

[inquisitor]

Sweden's success before socialism was due to its Protestant history since the time of the Peace and Treaty of Westphalia.