How to Ruin General Grievous - General Grievous 2003 vs TCW General Grievous

How to Ruin General Grievous - General Grievous 2003 vs TCW General Grievous
Today we are going to discuss and compare General Grievous from the 2003 Clone Wars and the newer Clone Wars Animated Series. Is TCW Grievous as bad as everyone says. Did they really ruin the General? All that in this video.

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Script:
Our beloved general first hit the big screen on 19th May 2005 with is unique character and evil persona, he was instantly a hit. General Grievous is shown in his first scene to be both competent and highly dangerous. A jedi killer with a strategic if not devious mind. He was able to go toe to toe with Obi-Wan at its height in Revenge of the Sith and has an iconic look. He has appeared to beloved Star Wars shows and I wanted to compare him in these two popular appearances. General Grievous appears in both the 2003 Clones Wars and the newer animated Clone Wars Series. But they are very different version of the same character. Cause fans to be a bit unhappy with the character.
First, we need to establish the character of General Grievous, his traits, his character. The best way to do that is to look at the character from Revenge of the Sith and what George Lucas intended him to be.
General Grievous is shown in his first big screen appearance to be both competent and highly dangerous. A jedi killer with a strategic if not devious mind.
So, his main features are:
• Competent
• Highly Dangerous
• Strategic/ Devious Mind
His Flaws are:
• He likes to toy with his prey
• Gloating
George Lucas wanted the general to look “like Death” and “Has to Look Scary.” These were his two requirements. Now both 2003 Clone Wars and TCW do that visually, but do they translate that to the way he acts. He needs to scary you with his actions and you need to feel your death is coming when he is in the room. So, let’s add those to the list:
• Scary and Death like
Now let’s look a 2003 Clone Wars and see if that Grievous matches our features.
• Competent -Tick
• Highly Dangerous -Tick
• Strategic/ Devious Mind – Some what
• Scary and Death like - Tick
• His Flaws are:
• He likes to toy with his prey -Tick
• Gloating -Tick
Grievous in 2003 Clone Wars is a beast there is no other way to put it. Do I think he is too strong? Yes, but everything in this show is ramped up pretty extremely. But apart from power level 2003 Clone Wars Accurately shows what the general should be.
He is competent in his missions like abducting the Chancellor and he is able to eliminate Jedi who are the main obstacle to him being successful.
We only get chance to see his strategic mind in combat as he using any means to achieve his goal.
Is he scary? Yes I would not want him after me. Look at the protection the Chancellor had and he still managed to capture him.
They also keep Grievous’ flaws like his gloating and playing with his prey. So, in short this portrayal of Grievous is very accurate. On the other hand the other Grievous is a different story.
TCW
• Competent -No
• Highly Dangerous – Rarely
• Strategic/ Devious Mind - Sometimes
• Scary and Death like - No
• His Flaws are:
• He likes to toy with his prey -Tick
• Gloating -Tick

In TCW Grievous only appears with an substance in 15 episodes. 11 and half of those episodes he is incompetent, always running away, losing and saying ‘our get you next time.’ He is a bit of a joke in some of his scenes. Like in Bound for Rescue and A Necessary Bond Grievous is unable to kill any of the jedi when he is faced against four younglings and Ahsoka. Now you could say that the show didn’t want to kill children in a children’s show (Clip of Anakin killing younglings.) but then why write it that way. All of them got away alive somehow. This next one there is no defence for. Him loosing to lesser fighters and struggling with clones and Gungans. He should destroy clones like they are nothing. As for the Gungans he only manages to kill a few before being beaten. You could say he is heavily out numbered yes but they attack one at a time and he still loses. There are plenty and I mean plenty of other examples of Grievous being portrayed badly but let’s move on to the times when I feel he is done right.
In 3 and a half of the episodes I feel they show Grievous in a positive light. Grievous Intrigue This episode is not with out flaws but the way Grievous captures Koth, toys with him, addresses the Jedi Council mocking them is the General I want to see.

[juhapekkaruusala]

"I'll get you next time!" - Clone wars Grievous while running away from jedi
"I'll get you next time!" -2003 Grievous while jedi are running away from him

[Makise]

Another thing I didn’t like about TCW Grievous is that he talked way too much in general. In the 2003 Clone Wars he stayed silent for the majority of the time and it added to his fear factor and made him much scarier as a result letting his actions do most of the talking for him. Even when he did talk his voice was still much cooler and more intimidating and evil sounding than his TCW counterpart.

[superzilla]

2003: Oh shit... It's General Grievous...

2008: Oh thank god, it's only General Grievous.

[edgareliseev]

His character arc was also ruined. In Legends, he had a Padme situation in his early life with his first lover being torn to shreds before his eyes by the enslavers of his species with the body having been thrown into the water and Grievous not being able to get her back. Then, after he almost beat the invaders and beat them back, the Jedi and Republic sanctioned the shit out of his planet. This caused such a starvation that his 10 wifes and 30 kids to die, meanwhile in canon he was jealous of the jedi. That's all

[EmperorNapoleon]

One note: in the 2003 series, we see the aftermath of the carnage Grievous’ forces have wrought during the Battle of Hypori. Before he addresses the Jedi, Shaak Ti says “Never have we been outmaneuvered by droids. His strategy is without flaw.”
This is what makes Legends Grievous so intimidating. He is a masterful warrior, able to go toe-to-toe with some of the galaxy’s best fighters (Masters Mundi, Secura, and Ti in the show, and Mace Windu himself in the Labyrinth of Evil novel). However, he couples that with a strategic and tactical brilliance outmatched by only the likes of Grand Admiral Thrawn. It makes him the perfect villain for the Clone Wars, and lends credibility to his reputation as a character. It truly is an awful shame we have not seen this potential of Grievous unleashed for twenty years.

[shadekerensky]

Now in the case of Grievous, unfortunately, the moustache-twirling "I'll get you next time" cowardly villain is what George wanted out of Grievous (which I believe he says in the commentary of Episode III on the special features) though he did tell Tartakovsky he wanted a dangerous Jedi Killer when the 2003 miniseries was being made so the whole thing with Grievous is, unfortunately, a clusterfuck created by George not being able to make up his goddamned mind as he was notorious for.

[josephsuh]

2003 Grievous: crushed a Padawan, killed 5 Jedi Knight, beaten 3 Jedi Council, easily slaughter the Clones of Legendary Bounty Hunter and a former Mandalorian including the Senate Guards, and has both brutal yet honorable coolest warrior Villain.

2008 Grievous: lose to a Padawan, always running away when losing, got beat up by a gungan, never seeing him killing a single Jedi Knight, and being a complete cowardly looser screaming like every Saturday morning Cartoon villains.

[Raptorman]

I don't think Grievous in Genndy's Clone Wars is too overpowered. Rather, the show largely shows Grievous in his most ideal circumstances. Count Dooku essentially it out for him when they're training. "You must have fear, surprise, and intimidation on your side. For if even one were to be lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them."

This plays out in both Genndy's Clone Wars and in RotS. The battle of Hypori is probably what people harken back to thinking he's too strong, but the situation could not be tilted more into Grievous' game. True, he took on a Jedi Master, several Jedi Knights, and a Padawan, all on his own. But they were all on fumes from the battle, confused, and scared. It's also the literal first time anyone significant in the Jedi order had faced him and lived, so up until that point, they had no idea who he even was. Plus, Grievous had an environment that favored him as well, full of dark corners and crevices to hide and strike from. Later, during the siege of Coruscant, he also largely has Shaak Ti in a panic and on the run, but even then, they still manage to get the better of Grievous a couple of times despite ultimately losing.

In Revenge of the Sith, even without having his chest caved in, Grievous isn't presented with nearly as favorable scenarios as he got in 2003 Clone Wars. On board the Invisible hand, he overestimates his position, and Obi-wan/Anakin turn the tables and blow up the situation on the bridge. Thus, he retreats. Later on Utapau, it's way more of an even situation. True, Obi-wan catches Grievous off-guard, but he also has an entire battalion of Droids with him. He figures he can toy with his prey a bit and gun him down later if it turns south. Once the Clones arrive, the situation devolves even further, and thusly their fight devolves until they're literally just having a backyard brawl. Grievous is finally killed, but the fight overall was fairly even until Obi-wan managed to dispatch him with aid of the force.

So, even if you take away the fancy over the top animations that are just inherently Genndy's style, I don't disagree with any of the outcomes with any of those events from a power scaling standpoint. He got the upperhand in earlier appearances when he had ideal situations, and managed to put up a decent fight in less ideal circumstances, even putting up a good fight against literal motha fuggin Obi-wan Kenobi. All rather consistent and fair imho. And Grievous lost due to Overconfidence and Sadism, not because of gross incompetence like in '08 Clone Wars.

[shadowking]

Good review. It reminds me of something I read on Deviantart called "the General Grievous Effect", where this guy highlights how in fictional media, mostly animation, there will be an antagonist that is initially portrayed as scary and competent but is later brought back as a stupid, clumsy, over-the-top and often comically inept villain.

[Pigeion]

Disney: “doesn’t want to kill children”
Disney with the kenobi series: *shows them getting brutally getting cut down*

[ledanoir]

We kind of see grievous stategic mind in 2003, tho: after he is intrioduced, we see a great Separatist ofensive, and hear the jedi council worried. Later, when he trains with Dooku, he says that the strategy of sprrading the jedi through the galaxy was effective, so now they can attack coruscant, although that was probably Sidiou's idea anyway

[metaknight]

I can 100% agree with this, except for one point
Grievous was not badass in Revenge of the Sith. He ran away from his first fight, and got his ass beat in his second and last fight, which he spend most of running away.

[ryankwon]

Mace crushing Grievous’ lungs made the transition to his Revenge of the Sith voice, coughing, and being less acrobatic reasonable.

[gdawgmainguy]

I would say, in favour in 2003 Grievous, you can see his strategic and devious mind in the way he fights. He's very, very unorthodox. He fights with his feet, switches hands in the middle of combat, flashes and shows off whenever he can while all the jedi are tense and shaken. You can say it's gloating, and yes, you're 100% right. He is gloating, and he's doing it not just to feed his ego, but to screw with the Jedi. His fighting style is sending a clear message to them: that he knows what he is doing and he's going to kill you in a way you don't see coming, and that message is really messing with their battle focus. How can you win a fight if you don't even believe there is a chance? That is the chess move Grievous is making, breaking their spirit in the middle of combat so that they can't keep their resolve and make mistakes all over the place.

[abstraction]

TCW Grevious can also epitomize the squandered potential of the cis battle droids army

[cumbrap]

I've only watched the first season so far but TCW did a lot of the villains dirty, how does Dooku get captured by a bunch of dirty space junkmen?

[thebatmanofneo-gotham]

Clone Wars 2003 Grievous was literally the peak of his Legends continuity version. He was strong, fast, skilled, terrifying, and straight-up GOATed.

Clone Wars 2008 Grievous is a pathetic clown. How can you fail to kill mere Padawans and Gungans? Like, DAFUQ?

[alfred]

I hate how sharp his design is now. In 2003, he was sleek and the edges of his suit were rounded, something typically ascosiated with heroes and not villians. So you never ever knew his intentions even though he obviously wanted to kill the Jedi...

[starflame]

There was a "Director's Commentary" in the Volume 2 Clone Wars (2003) DVD where Tartakovsky, the creator and director of said series, explained where he was told that George Lucas wanted a seriously dangerous Jedi killer, but later on changed it to the mustache twirling villain who always gets away. Tartakovsky believes Lucas was still not 100% set on what he wanted Grievous to be exactly and maybe he thought the whole super serious "Jedi Killer" was too much for a film series made for all ages. I know that sounds hypocritical when making the final film where Anakin murders a bunch of younglings, but this is George Lucas after he a made a million dollar franchise so he probably didn't care.

[SolomonMagnus]

Grievous fights Obi Wan far too frequently in TCW. In episode III, he gets Obi Wan off-balance when dueling him by spinning his third and fourth arms. That wouldn’t catch Obi Wan off guard if Obi Wan has TCW levels of experience combatting him. Also, Grievous has computer learning, so the Jedi Council purposefully avoided matching the same Jedi against him multiple times, such as when they avoided letting Windu fight Grievous as they were worried he would learn too much by fighting Windu and would become too dangerous