What is Pathological Lying? (Pseudologia Fantastica)

This video describes pathological lying. When we talk about the term pathological lying, we're talking about a set of symptoms that appears to be distinct, although there's controversy about that. Currently, it is not a mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, but the construct has been studied for a number of years and has a few different names including: compulsive lying, mythomania, morbid lying, and pseudologia fantastica. I'm just going to refer to it as pathological lying. There are three main schools of thought in terms of where pathological lying fits in with mental health. First is that it's a distinct mental disorder and it should be classified as such. With this school of thought, pathological lying is just overlooked. The second school of thought is that it is distinct and it could qualify to be a mental disorder, but it does not impair functioning or it's not treatable. The last theory is that the symptoms may or may not be distinct, but they're really just behaviors that are part of other disorders, specifically Cluster B personality disorders (antisocial, narcissistic, borderline, and histrionic. Pathological lying is a construct for which there is no agreed-upon definition. What are some of the characteristics of pathological lying? We see repeated lying that takes place over the course of years and it becomes a regular habit. The primary motivation does not appear to related to social status, material gain, or be otherwise obvious. The reason for the lying seems to be without purpose. This set of symptoms appears to be chronic and impulsive. A lot of the lies seen with pathological lying are fantastical, but not beyond the realm of what's possible. Pathological lying behaviors can also co-occur with normal lying. Lying that's there to avoid consequences or to be altruistic. We also see that the lying and pathological lying may be a reward in itself. There may be an internal motive for telling the lies. People affected by pathological lying don't always recognize their own behavior. In a sense it can be self-deception as well as an attempt to deceive others. Sometimes it's described in the literature as a daydream or a fantasy that's communicated as true. Instead of an internal daydream or fantasy, individuals who demonstrate pathological lying behaviors communicate these day dreams and fantasies to other people. Eventually they could come to believe in the lies, at least in a sense or they could forget what the truth really is. There's a part of pathological lying that in some instances appears to border on delusional. Other possible motives for pathological lying behavior include to repair an unimpressive narrative. If pathological lying is a distinct mental disorder that simply had been overlooked, there are a number of theories about how these behaviors are different as they manifest in Cluster B personality disorders. For example, if we compare pathological lying to antisocial personality disorder, with antisocial personality disorder, oftentimes the motive would be for some sort of profit. There would be no guilt associated with the lie. With pathological lying, there usually is guilt associated with the lies. In essence, one of the reasons that someone could start to believe the lies would be to reduce feelings of guilt. When we compare pathological lying to narcissistic personality disorder, we see that with NPD there would be a purpose of being grandiose. A number of individuals with NPD believe they are already perfect and that's not really a behavior we see with pathological lying. Comparing pathological lying to borderline personality disorder, a lot of times of with borderline personality disorder the lies have a purpose of avoiding abandonment and sometimes individuals with this disorder falsely accuse other people to avoid rejection or to reject them. There is mood dysregulation tied in with some of the lying behavior in borderline personality that we wouldn't see with pathological lying. Histrionic personality disorder has an attention-seeking component that we don't think is a part of pathological lying.

[undeadpresident]

I am a member of Pathological Liar's Anonymous. In fact, I'm the founder and president of that organization.

[NimbusDX]

This is interesting. As far as I know, I’ve only ever met one person who I would consider a “pathological liar”. He does not appear to have any cluster B disorder. He lies impulsively, almost like a compulsion. He does it all the time, and he does it for no obvious reason. The lies he tells aren’t always consistent with one another and usually seem to be inspired by whatever is happening in a conversation at the time. All his friends are aware of it. He’s a nice enough guy. Friendly, caring and not manipulative. His friends just sort of accept that whatever he is telling you may or may not be true.

His mother is apparently a severe alcoholic and he has some physical characteristics that might suggest a fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. We have wondered if his impulsive lying might have something to do with that. Perhaps impaired social skills combined with some poor impulse control. But, as far as I know, I’ve never met anyone else with a similar problem so it’s hard to say for sure.

[mehh]

I was with a pathological liar, dated him for a brief period. He couldn't keep up with his charade for long, he'd lied about the death of his childhood bestfriend in a tragic accident, when in reality, that friend of his is alive and well. Lied about being in life threatening situations etc. He was convincing af, back then, it was really hard for me to see through the smoke of it all.
When I came to know tho, confronted him long and hard, he tried to gaslight me, made it seem like I was a complete imbecile for calling him out on his lies.
I can't even imagine how much it has impacted how I trust others now,

so yeah, it completely sucked..

[lewiswereb]

Doctor, I have known at least three people who are as you describe. Thanks for the great lecture, psychology is only my hobby, but if I could go back about 50 years, I would definitely pursue it full time. There are many fantastic machines in the world, but none like the human mind.

[jamesgant]

I always thought pathological lying was developed in childhood when children living in homes of domestic violence are constantly required to conjure up plausible but untrue reasons for things that could lead to any form of abuse if the truth was found out in any way.

[Kash_Tastee]

I think I’m a pathological liar. Usually the lies I tell have no means to an end and (seemingly) affect nothing. I don’t believe I’m a narcissist because I think very lowly of myself and it shows. Also, I’m very empathetic. The guilt this causes makes one wish they never existed, or would at least cease to exist. Like watching the clock waiting for school to let out one is just counting the minutes until the great release. I’m not suicidal in that I would NEVER act on this. I have too much love for those around me, and humanity in general. Just wish I could turn the clock back or something. Wow, that was a lot. How much do I owe you Doc?

[andreasleonlandgren]

Very interesting i struggle with conpulsive lying and have made some great progress.

I just realized I lied to myself and others and that facing truth hurt in the moment but paid off long-term. If you air the actual problem you can change it and solve it.

It is def related to my ADD.

[JoseFlores-jybn]

Finally someone who explained it right

[gmapsakakatieakamarykate]

My brother is a PL, started from a very early age. No one else in my family did this. Many people around him never call him out on it. He went so far as to tell someone he wrestled a lion in the gulf war! I always thought it was to due to low self esteem as many of his lies are self-aggrandising.

I wish there was more research on it as he’s gotten worse the older he gets, has kids and it effects the family more and more and he has become very manipulative also. He also surrounds himself with drama and uses his kids to buffer him from conflict or to get something out of people - maybe he is narcissistic also?

[lacedhayes]

I think I am a pathological lier. I never really realized just how much I lie for no reason. I always seem to lie while I’m talking to other people. I always make up shit to add to the conversation. I never really thought about it until about a week ago. Now I feel guilty every time I do it. I’m trying to stop but it’s hard. Let me know if anyone else does this😕⬇️

[rapunzelmane]

My NPD brother lies for very many reasons: to make himself look good, to make someone else look bad, for financial gain, as part of a delusional fantasy, but also for his own amusement and entertainment. When he's lying impulsively, for the purpose of self-entertainment, the lies don't usually make much sense, when analysed, and are, therefore, not believable. When he lies in order to scam, the lies are well constructed and believable because, obviously, it is more imperative for them to be believed, when there is a financial gain. He feels no guilt whatsoever. I have no contact with him whatsoever.

[happygolucky]

I know a lady who i beleive to be a pathological liar. Ive met delusional people due to their mental health and its quite different.

She thinks our priminister was partying with her and that she grew up with him when she was a little girl, shes 20 years older than he is… When i question her and throw facts that contradict what she is saying she becomes slightly defensive but mostly brushes off the questioning. She said to me “you dont beleive me do you?” Which to me shows shes very aware of whats happening, delusional people usually aren’t.
Im impressed by how she can remember her storys as to how many there are..

Its easier to go along with the storys and pretend they are real because questioning and confronting is such a brain work out, it gives me headaches..

[nicorizzo]

I hope that there is more research on this. I have a couple friends who I love dearly but have figured out over the years that they are pathological liars, and it doesn't seem to me that they're trying to hurt anyone, they just seem to be doing it to get attention and look special.

[jackcracker]

Hi Dr. Grande. Thank you very much for your videos and all of your wonderful information.

[virginiamurrey]

this video has been very interesting to hear and learn about the term Pseudologia Fantastica. This was a new term for me in regards to pathological lying. I had not known that there was a debate on if this concept should or should not be considered as a disorder, rather I considered it as a symptom of other disorders.

[jemgem]

Yes I totally agree with a comment below....it needs to be a stand alone condition. Excellent explanation Dr Grande yet again, thanks

[thenarcissistsscapegoat]

Very informative video as usual, Doc. I'd like to add a warning from personal experience. I had come to the conclusion an 'ex-girlfriend' was a pathological liar, and that all of her confabulations were simply an unhealthy reflex based in shame, ie healthy narcissism. The conclusion was false, and dangerous. I eventually discovered there was a VERY GOOD and VERY WELL HIDDEN reason she was lying... it wasn't narcissism it was anti-social (a) she's organized crime where secrecy is rule one (b) she was using me as an alibi that she had gone straight to her parole officer and the dangerous part.. (c) she was setting me up for a long-con by claiming false pregnancy to extract money for a false abortion. Took me years of investigation to learn all that...and much more I'll never talk about! Lesson is don't assume someone is lying for no reason until you've looked under every rock, into every crevice, and between every molecule using your atomic microscope. Those bloody psychopaths are ^$#@*# good at what they do.

[savannahtriplett]

5:15 really is me.. with my relationships I'll for no reason, lie to them abt why i haven't been able to talk to them, when all i was doing was outside or when i tell them, or my friends what i did throughout my day, ill put in little details to make it sound a bit more interesting cause i think of them not knowing exactly what i did so i have free will to what i tell them n expect them to believe it i guess. i jus don't like how i am and i wouldn't say i make them terrible to the point i get lost and forget what I've lied abt but it definitely bothers me cause ik what i lied abt and sometimes with my relationships, and friendships, give mixed signals abt certain things that i have no real feelings for. im jus tired of making things up and wanna be real w my emotions.

[wandamixon]

The number of names used to describe this degree of lying emphasizes the lack of consensus associated with it. Although I understand how it does not seem to fit with the current criteria of the cluster B disorders, I believe that it best understood as another symptom rather than a disorder itself. I can imagine it manifesting from a mere impulse or motivation for attention. I do believe that most behaviors serve a purpose, though not always understood on either end of the communication pattern.

[nonsuch]

My Mother is a Pathological Liar. She thinks she always right but, 99% of the time she's wrong. The worst part is... she doesn't believe me when I tell her the truth. She will go and verify it from someone else and when they agree with me instead of her, she still has a hard time with it. It's hard to be around her.