God's Problem - Bart vs. Richard G. Swinburne

On January 10th, 2009, Bart D. Ehrman and Richard G. Swinburne are invited as radio guests by moderator Justin Brierley on radio show "Unbelievable," a weekly program on UK Premier Christian Radio. They reference Bart's bestselling book "God's Problem" where Bart states that the Bible contains different and unconvincing explanations about the problem of suffering. Richard Swinburne is a renowned Christian philosopher. He answers Bart's objections with arguments from his own book "Providence and the Problem of Evil".

Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.

Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and Justin Brierley. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this media without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and Justin Brierley is strictly prohibited.

[SirRulesalot]

Program starts at 10:00. Discussion starts at 24:00.

[davidlenett]

Clearly Swinburne approaches his views on suffering like a chess player sacrificing pawns in service to a future victory. It's completely detached from even a remote understanding of the blood and guts and miserable reality of the subject matter. I would suggest that before Richard weighs in on the topic he allow himself to become the plaything of a brutal dictator; beaten, starved, exposed to the elements for several months crying out to God to use his goodness, love and omnipotence to help him (only to hear the sound of silent detachment). No, Richard demonstrates he is simply incapable of understanding the awesome depravity of deistic neglect in the face of unimaginable suffering on an industrial scale throughout history but I credit Ehrman for appreciating its full scope.

[Nocturnalux]

The Christian's arguments are truly disturbing and veer on insulting. It is good for the Holocaust victim to have suffered and died horribly because it taught someone else a lesson and it is even good for them to have been able to improve others through their suffering. How does that make any sense at all?
This is almost like arguing that cancer is a good thing because without it doctors would not be able to apply their ingenuity to combat it.

[francesco]

I am utterly disgusted by Swinburne's arguments, psychopathy at its finest.

[tomdelinger]

Stupidest thing I've ever heard. Suffering is so we have opportunity and character building. I hope the suffering children appreciate the sanctity Richards gets from it.

[krishnadogra]

I am afraid Swinburne's views are extremely sadistic.

[dozer]

Put swineburn in a difficult life and he would stop lieing to himself and others I'd bet money.

[adammorva]

Damnit. Richard's childish logic makes this completely unlistenable.

[Looshington]

Okay so i am trying to figure out why Swinburne isn’t considered a horrible person for some of the things he said here.

[tonywilliams]

So my ancestors suffered during the transatlantic slave trade to bring glory to the Christian god?

[MusicFiend]

The reason Bart always "wins" these debates is that he's not really debating in the sense of using debate tactics and sch. He simply cares about the topic -a lot - and I think the genuineness of Bart cuts though any debate rhetoric thrown at him.

[Spaseebo]

What a foul man Swinburne is, and a disastrous example of a "Christian". The man has no love, no humanity, no compassion... and he carries it all off with an arrogant, pompous attitude. He is a disgrace.

[wrinkleneckbass]

Swinburne reminds me of a woman who defends her abusive husband.

[raywingfield]

A tenured Oxford professor speaking of suffering and all the good it brings. wahahahahah

[crystalheart]

Would Swinburne have the same cold hearted attitude it were his grandchildren starving to death?

[GetMeThere]

I wonder if Swinburne has considered that, with the kind of reasoning he chooses to use, that he can explain ANYTHING away if he likes...and a technique from which one can explain anything away actually explains nothing.

[SanjeevSharma-vkyo]

And they wonder why people are leaving the churches in droves.
I wonder what it could be ... it's really has me stumped, real head-scratcher there.

[cormacnl]

I feel the need to have the opportunity to choose good tomorrow. Should I nominate the population group who will suffer to make this possible or should I leave that to God? 

[kirstenrollins]

Disliked because of Swinburne, 1 minute after he started speaking I was suffering and I lasted 1 min because Christianity is about suffering. Then I  just turned if off.

[dansauber]

Swinburne's reasoning essentially lacks a significant understanding of true suffering, There
Is no value in suffering. There is no cultural exchange or personal engagement served by
This point of view. Bartering "good" outcomes for suffering seems to be
A shallow argument devoid of compassion and empathy. There is no component of "good"
In suffering. No pain, no gain has always been a silly and shortsighted argument. There is
No market for human suffering where a benefit is exchanged for pain.