Bart Ehrman vs. Michael Brown on Suffering

On April 15th, 2010 at Ohio State University, The Ohio Union Building in the Great Hall Meeting Room, Dr. Bart D. Ehrman and Dr. Michael L. Brown debate “Does the Bible Provide an Adequate Answer to the Problem of Suffering?” The debate was inspired largely due to Bart's book, "God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer". Bart argues that the Bible presents such contradictory "answers" to suffering, that we can't really know why there is suffering. For instance, in Amos and the other prophets, there is suffering because God is directly punishing people for their sins. But in books like Job, there is suffering because God is "teaching a lesson." Therefore, when we look at tragedies like a great earthquake, is God punishing them for their sins, or teaching them a lesson? According to Ehrman, we simply cannot know based on the Bible.

Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.

Michael L. Brown holds a Ph.D. in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures from New York University and has served as a visiting or adjunct professor at Southern Evangelical Seminary, Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary (Charlotte), Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Fuller Theological Seminary, Denver Theological Seminary, the King’s Seminary, and Regent University School of Divinity, and he has contributed numerous articles to scholarly publications, including the Oxford Dictionary of Jewish Religion and the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament.

Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and Michael L. Brown. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this media without express and written permission from those listed.

[Erin_]

Believers have a way of giving an elaborate non-answer every time.

Like many, if not most, apologists, Brown speaks as though he is delivering a sermon. He wants to influence the emotions, not the intellect, of the audience.

[sagebias]

Wow. Bart really took the gloves off for this one.

[chrismathis]

The mental gymnastics that religious people to go through to justify their views are amazing.

[AtheismActually]

Suffering for "character development" only makes sense if "character development" is a good in itself, whereas "character development" is only a good because suffering exists in the first place.

[CallinWire]

1:04:24 "Michael wants to say that this [no afterlife reward] is a hopeless position. Well, it is a biblical position."
Damn, Bart pulls no punches. Well said.

[adrianjanssens]

When Bart talks about suffering he gets quite emotional, as opposed to his normal professorial and sometimes humourous tone. I prefer it when he gets worked up a bit.

[davidhoffman]

The topic of the debate was "Does the Bible give an adequate answer to the problem of suffering?"
Bart Ehrman argued that it doesn't and offered many quotes and their citations. Dr. Brown failed to argue the affirmative, and instead argued from Christian theology, rather than the Bible. Thus Bart Ehrman won the debate hands down, even if you think he didn't do a very good job.

[AlecRozsa]

One of the most important points that Bart ever makes is how wicked people can turn from their ways with a variety of methodologies and theological viewpoints. Also, who says a loving God can't give a unique kind of meaning to people who don't pick the right religion (through no fault of their own I might add)? Assuming God exists, don't you think He'd understand and love His creation enough not to blame them for their inquisitive nature? This is something many modern Christians fail miserably to understand. Their views are so polarized that they think everyone else's quality of life is completely fruitless and empty while they alone are given everlasting joy. How selfish and arrogant is that?

[drfoxcourt]

It is amazing to me that somehow Michael Brown knows so much about what God thinks and what God wants. Meanwhile God is remarkably silent about suffering, natural disasters, disease, and cruelty. What is with cancer in young children. "There's a lot about God we don't know." I'd say we know nothing about God. We are trying to find out, via science and math, but God hasn't bequeathed that knowledge. Loving caring God my @ss!

[Vindsus]

Michael Brown's views are disgusting.

[Botie]

Michael Brown's whole argument is about how much better life is if you believe, full of anecdote. Bart's argument is based simply whether it's true or not regardless of how it makes people feel.

[alexanderhutton]

Brown said the Bible's answer for suffering is "subjective". I thought this was going to be a debate involving reasoned argument. Dr. Ehrman kept his part of the deal. Michael Brown delivered testimony, and a sermon to boot.

[Cowplunk]

At the end, Dr. Brown said that human suffering is "Bart's problem"; that Dr. Ehrman is tormented and losing sleep over the loss of his faith, and that the Bible is the answer. And yet, at the beginning of his presentation, Dr. Brown said of his wife, presumably a devout believer in God, "Many a night she cries herself to sleep over the pain of the human race." So apparently the bible has not even given his own wife an answer to the problem of suffering.

[chrismathis]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

― Epicurus

[JohnSmith-xfzu]

Michal: You can't say that God caused the Haiti earthquakes. Just cause god punished Israel doesn't mean he uses earthquakes elsewhere.

Also Michael: God caused earthquakes before mankind in preparation of mankind's sin. He's going to use earthquakes to punish mankind.

The mental gymnastics here are laughable.

[aek]

I wish Bart had mentioned his blog. It is a tremendous force for good and allows his readers to participate in the good work.

[chrismathis]

Eternal punishment for finite crimes is immoral.

[DiggumSmack]

An "all-knowing" god that needs to run tests to know the results of something should have been a part of the argument.

[denverbilyeu]

According to most measures the world is improving in many ways. Science has extended our life expectancy, increased food production, cured diseases despite being held back by religion for centuries. Marginalized peoples also would argue that as secularism has increased their suffering has decreased. On a side not I find it odd that Dr. Earhman had a bible and quoted directly from while Dr Brown did not and realied on anecdotes.