3 arguments against God, explained by a Catholic bishop | Bishop Robert Barron

“The very best arguments against God have been formulated by believers.”

The author of the Book of Job, St. Thomas Aquinas, and Fyodor Dostoevsky — all believers — elaborated convincing reasons against the existence of an all-loving, all-good God, which centered on the problem of evil.

It’s easy to dismiss religion if you conceive of God as an old man in the sky. But many atheists simply do not know what serious believers mean by the word “God.”

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[Wordfishtrombone]

It’s a mistake to expect all evil to be for a reason. That allows us to minimize suffering and avoid solutions. I grew up in a household that left me thinking that my suffering was my fault, part of a plan, and couldn’t be stopped.

[TheZchristina]

So all those children who were abused and raped by catholic clergy (priests and bishops) for years and never faced any consequences was just “part of God’s plan”? Their lifelong trauma and suffering was for the greater good of whom exactly?

[ReynaSingh]

God being evil is an argument against the Christian concept of God. The problem with using the term god universally, is many people mean very different things when they say god.

[purge_thehumanrace]

it tickles me to see the majority of these comments being rational thoughts from non believers. its getting to the point where religion has no leg left to stand on

[clynncraftsman]

You can't just jump from "children being tortured and dying" to a "unsuccessful job application" and hope it clears the matter. You can't talk about "the good in all evil" when there is no chance for redemption.

[Avaldemon]

The answer to any question you have no answer to should always be "I don't know" and not "God did it"

[anneturner]

I struggle with the permitting of evil to bring about a greater good. I cannot reconcile this.

[JesseWetherell]

Christopher Hitchens would have probably said something like,
"you've given enough attention to children and they deserve justice not a weirdly displaced apology for the church not being better at indoctrinating them into the flock."

We don't need an argument to disprove the existence of "god", you make exceptional claims, and we've been waiting for thousands of years for evidence, real evidence, not retrospective religious interpretations of life.

[akiblue]

I think the only argument that needs to be addressed is the lack of evidence that an all knowing invisible man that lives in the clouds, created the universe in his image, had the choice to make humans good, not capable of evil, but didn't purposefully, can read your mind and punish you for your thoughts, can control the outcomes of all situations, but choses not to, including slaughter, hunger and torture of innocents and can punish you with torture if you don't worship him. The "evil happened to me, but if it didn't, I wouldn't have seen the good" isn't proof of gods existence.

[sandeepshetty]

Its amazing how even as a catholic bishop, he freely questions the existence or goodness of god, not blindly beliving, in due course of time i wish another abrahamic faith... Namely islamic mullahs and scholars also has such open minded questions about allah and his creation

[adk]

If there were no childhood cancer or child abuse or anything more harmful than a broken bone, that would be half the battle for me to believe in God.
I mean, what kind of father bears to watch his children come trough rape or a slow excruciating death like cancer having THE power to impede all of that?

[cluelessandcurious]

He doesn’t even scratch the surface of why people don’t believe in God. Just goes to show how naive religious people are when it comes to this topic. Some atheists are atheists because they lost faith in humanity, but most of us are atheists because religion is simply ridiculous and it’s hard to believe it’s claims.

[addyourname]

God is a human invention to both give us hope and control us. Isn’t it strange how modern God is all love? He’s got all the attributes humans wish we had and none of the bad. God is humans projecting what they wish the world was.

[tanitoluwaj.adedotun]

B exists. But A cannot exist if B exists.

Barron: The answer is that B isn't what we think it is, B is really A, therefore A exists. in the end, A and B still exist.

Almost had me in the first half ngl.

[panmigacz]

The metastatic cancer I got made my life so much more fullfilling. Especially when I got depression.

One of things not making me depressed is the fact I actually accept the evil " " reality the way it is, without any retouch and excuses for beliefs that would naively try to prove there is actually a Good God . . .

" Life is scary - get used to it "

[ArKritz]

Arrogance isn't a virtue, and humility isn't a sin. If pretentiousness were a currency, bishop Barron would be a billionaire.

[abrysunnyanthraper]

I would love to hear the Bishop talk about Nietzsche’s critique on God.

[timeshark]

Before watching, I expect to see "the problem of evil", the problem of "divine hiddenness", and the contradictions in the bible (both internal and with reality).

Presents a sort of a version of the problem of evil, but not quite the actual argument...

I didn't really notice which other arguments he was presenting. It was rambling preaching that I didn't pull the other 2 arguments out of.

Overall, I give this attempt a 2 out of 10. He galloped all over the place, from topic to topic... presented a truncated and misshapen version of the problem of evil to slap down... then ended with a string of strawmen. Very disappointing.

For clarity I guess I should present the _actual_ problem of evil... it isn't about bad things happening sometimes, its about evil existing at all, and it only applies to the tri-onmi God of Christianity.
Epicurus summed it up well:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
The most common "counter" is to point vaguely at free will, ignoring the logical inconsistencies that brings up when looking at other teachings and how inconsistently the idea of free will is presented in the stories of the bible.

[ommietheman]

Inconsistency is the best argument againt the existence of a god.
The fact that god failed to provide one consistent truth that is unchallengible by any one with primary education makes god not worthy of worshipping even if god exist.

[br]

There’s a big difference between evil/suffering and mere disappointment because you didn’t get a job you wanted, or your ex dumped you.