Bishop Barron on Grace and Karma

There are two basic approaches to religion throughout the world. The first, found in much of the East, is a religion of karma, and the second, prominent in the Abrahamic religions of the West, is a religion of grace. We devotees of a religion of grace have to know that the gift is not for us alone; rather the generosity of God is meant to awaken a like generosity in us.

[CESSKAR]

There is a quote in "The Flowers of Saint Francis" early on:
-"Why does everyone follow you, Francesco? You're not tall, handsome or noble."
-Because God could not find a lower creature on Earth, nor a sinner worse than I, in order to show that all virtue and good come from Him, not us."

[andykim]

Last week, I converted to Catholic and surprised everyone!!! I have listened to video your for a long time...your wisdom, devotion and love of Christ have gradually changed me. I find myself wanting to learn more from you about Jesus Christ and ❤️ to will of good of the others. God bless you and thank you, Bishop Barron.

[RAIRADIO]

Karma and Grace is not exclusive. I think Grace and Karma together explains life.

[chrismoellering]

"We may not get what we want, we may not get what we need, but let's pray we never get what we deserve."
My favorite toast, and a compact statement of the idea of grace.

[Maroonlink]

I love Bishop Barron. He is a true testament to the true Catholic Church

[lucaschute]

Bishop have you considered sitting down with Jordan peterson? I feel your two perspectives would lead to an amazing conversation

[vincewyn]

“God is more willing to pardon than we have been to sin.”😇St. Catherine of Siena🙏🏻4us

[carolinaarrudafreire]

Another wonderful mini-class, Dear Bishop Barron! Thanks and God Bless you. A true conduit of Grace.

[marycahill]

One of my favorite Youtube videos of all time. Fills me with hope and happiness.

[krishnapartha]

It’s not that simple. the Bhakti school of Hinduism very much believes in Grace.

[hjpoloa]

Such an amazing explanation. Thank you Father!

[carlosparra]

But my question is, why christian doctrine believes that man deserves the worse? I get that we are fallen creatures, we are fallible, but, why does christian doctrine automatically assumes that man is so wicked and corrupt and evil that he deserve the worse of the worse, so as to be thankful that he has a religion of grace and not karma? Karma is a natural law and it operates regardless of what religion you profess.

[composerdoh]

This is a great talk, particularly within the context of the idea of grace. You very poetically and clearly explain some problems with the idea and also how it works. 

But I think when you address karma it shows at best a slight distortion or misunderstanding of the idea of karma, particularly in Buddhism. Karma is not "getting what you deserve" but rather the idea of cause and effect. If you plant a lemon seed, and the right cultivating conditions occur, a lemon tree will grow. You shouldn't be surprised nor upset that a mango tree didn't grow instead. This is how it works at the simplest and most practical level that most meditation practitioners deal with. 

I don't think it's even necessarily mutually exclusive from the idea of grace, at least at karma's simplest and most obvious levels. Again, I'm speaking for Buddhism here- not sure about Hinduism, but in Buddhism karma is not at all about "punishment" or getting "just deserts" (although it's possible to manifest that way sometimes- but that's not what it's "about") but on the every day level it's about how mind states are cultivated, how they develop and grow into emotions, impulses, then actions, and then those actions meet with external circumstances, and when repeated and cultivated they can ripen into relationship patterns and personal dispositions. You don't even HAVE to go further into the idea of rebirth- one CAN just leave it there. 

But in other words, if you want to grow certain kinds of mind states, pay attention to the thought seeds. What kinds of thoughts are you allowing to run through your mind and "listening to" from moment to moment? if your thoughts are criticizing, complaining, blaming, etc. you should not be surprised that you are in a foul mood and treat people poorly, and in return those people are upset with you, or have some poor opinion of you. THAT is the law of karma. The training is to watch those thoughts, and if those thoughts are causing suffering to yourself and potentially to others, the practitioner is to redirect the mind, to see the thoughts are not real nor substantial, have compassion for the conditions that brought about those those thoughts, (you have to practice to see clearly you didn't CHOOSE those thoughts, so you don't "DESERVE" them- they probably came from previous conditions- your biology, your family, etc.) and then to try to cultivate compassionate and kind thoughts. Also to see how this pattern works with others, and how they're ALSO the result of their causes and conditions, which allows you to not see them as inherently "good" or "bad" (although they might be temporarily MANIFESTING as "good" or "bad" fleetingly in a particular context or situation) but rather see them as suffering, and as a fellow human being. From this position it's very hard to see them as an "enemy" but one can still stand up to them or try to stop them from doing harm if that's what you see them doing. But it's from a very different place- not from "you're my enemy" but from "you're my brother or sister, and I feel I need to do XYZ to help you." And as much as possible to be kind, understanding and generous, and how those actions will cultivate the "fruit" of compassion, happiness, and enjoyable relationships.

One could argue on a theoretical level how the law of karma and idea of grace are fundamentally different, which I'm not really interested in doing, but on a practical level I don't see how this practice contradicts the tenets of living a Christian life, nor how it contradicts grace. In fact I think it can give you a psychological technology to help improve your Christian walk. You will still have plenty of room for growth, plenty of places where you'll mess up and do something stupid, selfish or unkind, from which you can ask for God's grace to forgive and help you with.

[keithdiaz]

This video brings to mind similarities between karma and prosperity theology. Very thought provoking Bishop Barron. Btw- enjoyed your reflections on Advent.

[deb]

Karma is a dangerous philosophy, I am Indian and I know how disgusting it is, you never know how much you have to pay for sins from your previous life, when the Idea of determined destiny is involved it becomes worst.

[danielt.]

An observation from an interested agnostic (or a "secret Herod" as you would say)... what attracted me most with the teaching's of Eastern religions and Karma is the non-finality ingredient in this worldview which I find gives a sense of Hope, whereas the finality ingredient in most Abrahamic religions can lead to a sense of despair. What I mean is, in Karmic religions there is always Hope even in the midst of reaping what you deserve because the punishment is finite and proportionate. In Abrahamic religions, once a certain threshold is passed there is no Hope. That is something that attracts me more towards a Karmic worldview than an Abrahamic worldview. But nevertheless I enjoyed this video and I always enjoy your perspectives on these issues.

[rohinimalhotra]

I love to listen at your feet Father...God bless your media ministry!!

[Jason-qsjj]

God bless you, Your Excellency!

I pray every single one of our prelates would be as charitable, as knowledgeable, and as erudite as yourself.

May God bless you abundantly with even more faith, hope, and charity, and may Our Lady pray Our Lord to fill you with wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, and may the Holy Spirit give your words recognition and power with millions of people around the globe!

[littlemichael]

Hi there Bishop Robert Barron.

Eastern religion teaches surrender (grace) and freedom from action (karma).

“Surrender exclusively unto him with your whole being, O Bharat. By his grace, you will attain perfect peace and the eternal abode.” – Bhagavad Gita 18:62

“Those whose intellect is unattached everywhere, who have mastered the mind, and are free from desires by the practice of renunciation, attain the highest perfection of freedom from action.” – Bhagavad Gita 18:49

[thedisintegrador]

First off, I am a an orthodox christian, just to clarify.

I think you’re misunderstanding the basic karman law. Yes, “you get what you deserve”, but that’s found in the bible as well. Look at proverbs for that.

What’s important considering karma in Hinduism and Buddhism for example is that this law, this karmic law connected to it the samsara of deaths and rebirths, the important thing to realise is that this is NOT A GOOD THING for us. And that Maya, the veil over our eyes of not knowing God, the Truth, is behind this whole cosmic law, and that this needs to be escaped by knowing God or the essence of all things, or letting go, as in Buddhism. This then sets you free from this law, as you said, freeing you from the terrible law of karma. Mind you, even reincarnating as a god is not in your best interests. In your best interests is to leave this endless wheel of suffering. Much like Christians die to the world with God creating everything anew, so do the easterners escape the circle of samsara by coming to God who frees them from this endless horrifying destiny.

It’s not as straight forward as you are presenting it, bishop, no offence.