Electric Buses Are A Scam*

*when they're used as a shiny green PR stunt instead of building an actually viable system, which, in the majority of cases, doesn't include battery-electric buses.

Image attributions:
Picture of the off-wire trolleybus:

[chefcandy]

It's nice to see Adam's audience is willing to disagree with him instead of accepting whatever takes he has as good ones

[tomaszsotysik]

The problem with this one is, the situation where the city has a dilemma whether to buy 1000 diesel busses or 500 electric busses, doesn not actually ever happen. The number of busses will stay the same, because the bus routes are already established. The only cost is replacing old machines, for new ones, which would happen eventually anyway, as the old diesel machines would be scrapped for newer ones. So when they are replaced with electric, the only result is cheaper and cleaner transport.

I don't know much about trolleybuses, as we don't have them here, but I can agree that they would be the best option, provided we can accept the cost of intrastructure.

[devononair]

I just have to point out something, because I see this a lot in these discussions. When you mention slave labour in mining the rare earth metals, this is not an flaw in the use of batteries in vehicles. It's a problem, but it's not inherent to the batteries. It's possible to make batteries without slave labour. Consider this: if lots of clothes are made from slave or exploitative labour (which they are), you don't stop wearing clothes. You work to eliminate those bad agents from the clothes industry.
I say this not to stop the discussion of slave labour - it should be discussed - but the framing of it in this instance is a poor form of argument.

[BrosOfDecay]

I have to disagree with you on this one Adam, here in the Netherlands Electric busses work perfectly, they replaced all the old and dirty diesel busses some time ago and made the cities cleaner and less noisy, I do however agree that it is not the most economical option for developing countries.

[HorzaPanda]

My 2 cents: I get your point, but as a pedestrian who occasionally had to walk along a roads with a lot of (admittedly older) diesel buses, my nose and lungs would very much have appreciated them being electric instead (this was in Manchester, UK)

[JKJKJK]

Couple of points:
- Bus routes do change routinely, due to big events, road constructions or changing transport dynamics in cities
- If your overhead wire breaks, you potentially lose your whole transport system until it's fixed in comparison to only losing a single bus
- If rare metals and slave labour are an argument, we couldn't use any systems using microchips

[iAmKilljoy]

"City bus lines have this attribute of not changing their route." Not true. A lot of cities are constantly changing their routes to deal with changes in neighborhoods and job centers. Smaller cities add, reroute, and unfortunately remove bus lines every few years. Sure, after a while, a city will ultimately settle on some major unchanged routes, but there will always be the need to add or change some routes. Having a transit mode with that flexibility is very important.

[TaeSunWoo]

I’m convinced at this point that Adam is the “I like trains” guy

[Isolanporzellator]

My city replaced a majority of their diesel buses with electric buses over the last few years and I consider that a good change. They don't carry a very large battery but only enough to complete their 25 minute round trip with some power to spare. They have a scheduled wait at the end of the line anyways, so they're charged by overhead wires at the bus station while they wait, giving them enough power to run throughout the day.
Regardless of which type of electric bus is being used, all of them have significant advantages over diesel buses. They are much quieter and cleaner, improving quality of life for the people that live near those bus lines.

[samuelsegal]

While I typically agree with your videos, I'm going to have to go against you for this one. I think your position underestimates the costs of implementing infrastructure to have a trolley or train system within a city. While it might make sense to implement that sort of system in a large city like Budapest, where fixed costs are less imperative, in smaller cities, the electric bus is a cost effective measure. "Throwing up some wires, " as you mentioned it, would require a large amount of funding that simply isn't feasible in cities with a smaller budget. The electric bus is a means of providing better public transportation without having to make any expensive or large scale infrastructure changes; they can use the already existing road network. Not to mention that electric buses are more environmentally friendly and low maintenance than their diesel counterparts.

[Larry]

Atmospheric rail flaps also failed as they had to use lard on the leather flaps in order to maintain a seal, which all got eaten by rats, so they'd constantly have to keep replacing it.

[grantpopp]

Not only did you use a “slippery slope” when comparing electric buses with diesel ones, but you assumed that the city would be buying all of the buses from scratch. If this is the case, then your point somewhat stands, but the reality is that electric buses will just be swapped out with the preexisting diesel ones.

[icuesta]

It makes me so irrationally happy to see people discussing different options for improving public transport, regardless of the specific arguments. We're united in our hope to build more livable cities which is an important thing to remember

[haydenlee]

this comment section restores my faith in humanity. Mature people discussing their different ideas in a mature manner.

You have such nice viewers, Adam!

[iffn]

Sorry, but as an engineer, I am not convinced by the information provided. This just seems like complaining at randomly guessed data.
Electric busses are certainly preferable to diesels busses when it comes to pollution and noise. But there are various ways of implementing them, each with their individual infrastructure, vehicle procurement and maintenance costs. For example, the charging infrastructure cost of battery powered buses might be lower than setting up and maintaining wires all over the city.
Therefore, various proposals are usually considered in cities. Since this technology is currently evolving, data needs to be gathered in real live applications to see which solution is preferable.

[KristoKorps]

I feel like these videos are true in the sense of "what is the most efficient method in general" but with the US, I feel like we can only manage improvements to existing systems, like from diesel to electric for example. In my town, we don't even have any bus lines to electrify.

[jan-Juta]

Bus routes changing is one of the greatest advantages of busses, adjusting routes to meet the changing needs of a dynamic population. In cities where the old busses are coming out of date and need to be replaced there is no real disadvantage to switching to electric long term, ignoring the pollution aspect it lowers costs and is a lot more realistic a solution to push through the bureaucracy of modern day city works. You can get electric busses up and operational in a matter of weeks, a cable network comprehensive enough to compete with busses is a decades long development. Take Toronto for example, they had street cars and a relatively comprehensive overhead cable system, the city expanded, the population center shifted, now those street cars are glorified tourist attractions.

[samv]

Someone from Bogotá here, right now we have 655 electric buses and how it changed the city has been incredible, in the past there were a lot of old and small buses with not even Euro 1 certifications, and how polluting they were was unreal, with the new fleet the air quality index of the city has been improving and also the benefit for the citizens, those buses are part of Bogotá Intelligent Transport Systems, meaning those buses are analyzed every second and a AI is helping the buses operators and manager take better desicions on routes and frecuencies.

[matthewparker]

Every 3 - 6 months my city reviews it's extensive bus network and implements route changes to provide service efficiently to those areas that need it most. You can't keep that kind of flexibility if your network is built around caternary cables, especially in a suburban environment. Moving the routes would require extensive works to add the infrastructure along the new route. If nearby buildings are detached or single story, you need to install poles to support the caternary, which probably means partial road closures. The new infrastructure needs to be inspected by electricians, and connecting that infrastructure would cause service disruptions. And unused infrasturcture has to either be maintained or removed, both of which add costs.
Installing a new stop marker for an electric bus can be accomplished by two men in a matter of hours.

The single biggest advantage of busses is their flexibility. You are not tying yourself into a single route for the lifetime of the service. There is no reason to abandon this flexibility in the move to cleaner transit. Trollybusses and light rail both have their uses, but they are not a suitable replacement for every bus route.

[LoadingData...]

one reason I like electric busses is that they're quite and doesn't produce much vibration. you can have a peaceful ride, unlike noisy&vibrating busses.