Trolleybus VS Battery Bus - Which One Is The Future?

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In this video, we talk about trolleybuses and electric buses, their strengths and weaknesses, and which option is optimal for use in cities.
We also talk about the history and best global examples - Solingen, Arnhem, Zurich and Rome.
#cityforall #urbanism #city #trolleybus #electricbus #history #solingen #rome #zurich #arnhem #publictransport

Timecodes:
00:00 - Intro
00:29 - History
04:35 - Successful cases: Solingen, Germany
06:46 - Arnhem, the Netherlands
08:06 - Zurich, Switzerland
10:18 - Rome, Italy
12:11 - Or maybe just buy electric buses?
17:06 - Conclusions

[NeonNion]

Environmentally speaking, trolleybusses are way superior compared to battery electric busses, they don't require toxic rare earth metals like BEBs do. That's why, in my opinion, we should be building them whenever possible and sensical. Like, it wouldn't make much sense to build overhead electrical cables for a limited rural bus service.

[yrrr]

The biggest reason I love trolleybuses is when the bus gets bigger, there's no need to put a bigger battery in there because they source electricity from overhead wires. So in my opinion the bi-articulated or even tri-articulated trolleybuses are usually a better investment than the standard size ones.

[AlRoderick]

Trolley buses are unambiguously good. We should definitely have wires put up in our cities and we should also use those wires for other things as well, like the garbage trucks, postal vans, snow plows and such. We should make the batteries in those vehicles relatively small and probably interchangeable as opposed to fitting them with a gigantic battery that mostly just sits there being hauled around.

With advances in robotics and sensors, it shouldn't be that difficult to design a system that can put the poles back onto the wires autonomously basically anywhere.

However, I have to push back a little bit on the stuff about the mining, most of the stories are overblown and a lot of them are propaganda from oil companies. Oil companies, by the way are the biggest consumers of cobalt, it's used in diesel refining. The fire risk is definitely real, but we're starting to see interesting breakthroughs in sodium ion battery chemistry that has a much reduced fire risk. It's got a lower energy density but as I said we shouldn't be putting multiple ton batteries in the buses anyway.

Good presentation overall.

[rasmAn]

i've lived in Arnhem for 15 years now, all maintenance i've known to have been done in this time is when a lorry that shouldn't have been where it was drove into a bridge and smooched the wires. there was also one street that got extensively redone, and in the meantime the poles holding the wires up got redone. both were done within a few days. there is one truly ancient service lorry that is an event when it's spotted, i've seen it twice when a storm made some branches fall on the wires. wires last a long time, but if they need to be changed, the service lorry comes by at night, and changes the wires over at about 2kmh, without any noise that would wake anyone. As stated, the network is about 70 years old and doing just fine. the amount of maintenance seems to be quite minimal, as does the additional outages and delays. the worst thing that seems to happen is that someone pulls the ropes of the fishing poles to be funny, but it seems most people of questionable intelligence think that that is where the electricity is, so it doesn't happen all that often

[miroslawmoczyrog]

Trolleybuses with batteries give you the best of both: they are lighter, cheaper, autonomous, don't need dedicated chargers, do not waste time on charging, don't require overhanging cables everywhere, are able to reroute

[dercfts]

I live in Kyiv and the main public transport option that I use is trolleybus! Kyiv trolleybuses are just iconic

[edward]

Trolleybus is the real Eco-friendly bus.

[thoughtfox]

Trollybusses are great for citys with a high frequency, battery-electric busses are great for low-frequency longer range routes, like in rural areas or for special services. A Public transit network should always have a few network-indipendent busses, to compensate for big events, accidents and construction on mainlines, evactuations etc. even if it usually only runs trollybusses.

[creaturexxii]

In Vancouver Canada there's lots of trolley buses. I rode the number 19 which takes you to Stanley Park and I got to say, trolley buses accelerate fast! They're definitely one of my favourite type of buses second only to double deckers.

[humanecities]

I really appreciate that there are a variety of options for people getting around. Different circumstances call for different solutions.

Thanks for this in depth look at these modes!

[Schnaitheimer]

Thanks for highlighting at the end, that trolley buses are also electric buses. I prefer to speak of battery buses and trolley buses to mark the real difference of both power systems. And overall, a really good video of course :-)

[guidoenriquez]

Can't believe you didn't mention Mexico City, the system was fully renovated with brand new Yutong trolleybuses and many new kilometres of this service have been or are being created.

[MarioAtheonio]

Great video! Here in Bratislava (Slovakia), the trolleybus network is about to be significantly expanded, and I'm really looking forward to the double-articulated vehicles which should enter operation sometime this year! However, the city still feels the need to tinker with battery electric and even hydrogen buses as well, for some reason.

[abrr]

I 100% agree. Sometimes the solution to future problems is unappretiated technologies of the past.

[gundurito]

Mexico City has a 203km trolleybus network served by 290 units on 9 lines, with two more lines under construction. Latest acquisitions have included simple and articulated units with supporting batteries and are regularly used as a support whenever the subway or other systems fail, having a ~80km battery autonomy.

[maxwyss]

Pretty good video!

Some additional comments:

• Switzerland has 13 active trolleybus systems; all of them use either single- or double-articulated vehicles. There are no more standard size trolleybuses in operation in Switzerland. This can be understood in the way that trolleybus (especially the bi-articulated kind) is in the top range for the operation field of buses. If you have to get beyond the feasible capacity, you have to go rail-based.

• The results of the research with the SwissTrolley Plus lead to the development of a sophisticated energy/battery management system, which takes into account the topography of the line, in order to get all energy created with regenerative braking into the battery (instead of braking resistors or the overhead wires). So, it makes sure that the battery is sufficiently discharged before a downhill section of the line, and that it is becomes fully charged at its end. The effect of this system is that the energy consumed from the overhead wires can be reduced by about 25%.

• It took VBZ only a few thousand franks in infrastructure investment to electrify a specific line from diesel to BTB with IMC operation (well, this line ran under wire for about half its length already).

• The video mentioned it already, the manufacturers never list range in unrestricted mode (meaning that all consumers are active), but always in restricted (or emergency) mode, where all non-essential consumers are switched off. A rule of thumb by VBZ is that you design the vehicles around unrestricted mode with 2.8 kWh/km (single-articulated).

• In St. Gallen, extending the overhead line network by 20% allowed to double the network length operated with electric vehicles. So, it should be a no-brainer for systems having already trolleybuses in operation to expand with BTBs with IMC.

[IamTheHolypumpkin]

You now could argue: “Well actually copper for the wires too is not renewable”.

A Copper wire is comparable much easier to recycle, melt it down and cast it again, recycled it is.
I agree with you about trolley omnibusses. I would add to the argument. The electric bus is more or less still a development platform, there are a lot more improvements to be done, meanwhile the trolley omnibus is a decades proven technology.
Because we need green transport now not tomorrow, spending the extras upfront is in my opinion just worth it.

Furthermore if you City also operates a tram network you could always argue that the trolley omnibuses is a 15% down payment for a tram. When the demand increases to a thresholds put in rails, remove one of the wires and you have a tram.

[saibotyurico]

This video's title should be rewritten as: Why are Trolleybuses so great. And why I don't like electric buses.

[thomaskortvelyessy]

Fully agree! I have lived in Arnhem for 4 years and I know them from Budapest. And so I kept asking myself the same questions. The combo of trolleybus and battery was new for me but makes all the sense. Thank you for making this video!

[markusstudeli]

The way to go is to combine the two, like shown with your Solingen example: Until recently, some trolley buses had auxiliary diesel motors to maneuver around bus yards, parts without overhead wires or obstacles on their regular lines. Now, these auxiliary motors can be replaced by batteries that can be recharged via the overhead wires.
These batteries are rather small and lighter than an auxiliary motor with fuel, and usually don't have a wide range, but they allow the buses to reach the next functioning power lines. Unlike diesel motors they don't need start-up time nor an additional fuel supply.
What makes these systems additionally attractive is their ability to recuperate energy when braking, which saves both energy and break pads abrasion.
The size of the battery packs can be adapted to the specific needs of a system. In Salzburg, for example, one trolley line extends far beyond the city overhead wire system into a suburb. The bus runs and recharges first under the wire system of the city and then runs autonomously on the country road out to the suburb for a total of more than 20 km.
Employing these dual mode buses offers easy solutions for example when it comes to opening routes that cross a railway line with conflicting overhead wires, or underneath low bridges with insufficient clearance to install overhead wires.