Theistic Determinism & The Church: Who Taught It First?

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, is joined by Dr. Ken Wilson to discuss the history of Determinism in the church.

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[John.]

There is such a strong need for Calvinists to make their position seem true at all costs. They spend so much energy defending their philosophy rather than the scriptures themselves.

[brucegolston]

"Augustine (not Christ/holy spirit/God) is so wholly within me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and [satisfaction to MYSELF] out of his writings."

This quote says volumes.

[californiahighdesertpreach]

Hi guys sorry I have to come here, and ask but I don't have a church family. So I need prayer I have something called cotton wool spots in my eyes. Please pray for me, I have been spending way to much time at home. I am a open air street preacher, love sharing the gospel of Christ. I was going to the abortion mills in my area. Now I don't go any where. Please keep me in prayer that Jesus will heal me. Thank you all so much God bless you all.

[biblicaltheologyexegesisan]

The way Dr. Wilson said that Augustine was the first Christian determinist was so funny, he said that the other determinists before him were Manichean, Gnostics and Stoics. It was priceless.

[DaveTheTurd]

The Reformed gospel is another gospel. Talk about a virus... it's everywhere... Keep up the great work, gentlemen.

[Truthaholic]

It’s almost comical that we have to have these conversations. Anyone who is a serious Bible believer will never naturally come to the conclusion that calvinism is legit doctrine. They are all taught these falsehoods!

[marycollis]

Leighton, I’d really like to hear more about Dr Wilson’s point at the end that, “if it wasn’t for Augustine, the Reformation would never have happened.” Does he mean it didn’t need to happen, it would have been better without it? Or can this be fleshed put more if you understand what is meant.

[HeavenGuy]

Psa 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

[biblicaltheologyexegesisan]

Augustine was the first to popularize this heretical doctrine of determinism

[thm]

God gets angry and makes guilty and judges the angels who fell who could not decide not to rebel against God because the opposite of the decree cannot happen (God decree before they sin that they should rebel) .

[amadeusasimov]

Hmm, so could you sort of say that Calvinism has roots in Manichaeism and Gnosticism?

[DrVarner]

When is the Wilson vs White debate?
James can’t use Covid as an excuse anymore because he just did a live debate against Stratton.

[jakeyboy]

What part in the Reformation would you say God and the Holy Spirit played? Also is not prophecy “deterministic”! Or is the provisionist god a god of luck or chance, or worse yet, dependent on man’s freewill to accomplish his purposes and plans! Chapter and Verse response please!

[chaddonal]

These shorts are great!
However. I'm confused by the final statement. Is Ken suggesting the Reformation was a bad idea?

[carolwilliams]

The Devil has tried to derail Christianity over and over. If he cant do it from without by persecution, then he tries from within by adding mans philosophies and mxtures from other religions. This perfectly describes Augustinian theology.

[JimiSurvivor]

The ECF retained the Orthodox view of FREEWILL in SALVATION through FAITH. They also continued teaching that that salvation was conditioned upon ongoing FAITH and OBEDIENCE. Where they missed it was altering the foundational teaching on BAPTISM in the second and third centuries to include infants. Since infants do not sin neither can they repent. Thus baptism did no longer meant a relinquishing of a life to die in Christ but rather an initiation into the Church community.

[Dullbot]

They "find Calvinism" in ECF the same way they "find" it in the Bible.

[ryrocks]

Augustine is slandered: he does have theological excesses, as seen in his polemics against the Pelagians. Contemporaries of his corrected him on these issues, and he goes down as a venerable Saint of the Church.

[brianna_monique_williams]

Do we know what changed the last 18 years of Augustine's life? Did he become a gnostic in his beliefs? Or is it a stretch to say that?

[yvonnedoulos]

I can’t help but wonder how some, as Protestant Christians, can so ardently claim to follow Augustine, who is called ‘the doctor of the Roman Catholic Church’. 🧐