The Damaging Effects Of Theistic Determinism | Leighton Flowers | Calvinism | Soteriology 101

Whether Calvinists like to admit it or not, holding to Theistic Determinism (the idea that God decrees whatsoever comes to pass) is damaging to people. What do we mean by that? Take a look at this video.

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[bridgetgolubinski]

This was so true of my life as a Calvinist. I was so depressed because of its implications. I am so glad I am free of this thinking!

[freeguy]

PART 1: Meet Tim. Tim is a recent convert to Christianity and a recent convert to Reformed Theology (ie, the Doctrines of Grace, ie TULIP) Tim starts reading the Bible and praying every day. He goes to church and listens to theological greats like John Piper, John MacArthur, and RC Sproul. He learns about God’s sovereignty. He learns that God is the means and the cause of everything that happens in the universe. God has total causal control. Tim finds the Westminster Confession of Faith, and accepts it gladly.
Tim discovers more about sovereignty in a sermon by RC Sproul. It is about the “Maverick Molecule”. Pastor Sproul says that if even one molecule isn’t under God’s sovereign control at all times, God is not God. Nothing can happen unless God has ordained it to happen and nothing will happen outside of God’s decree. If even one molecule is outside of God’s control, then you cannot trust God’s promises. In fact, Sproul says that if you don’t believe that God is in control of everything, you might as well be an atheist, because you don’t really believe in the God of the Bible.
Just like Tim believes he was chosen before the foundation of the world, he believes that God decrees every single thing that has and will happen. John Piper says if anything happens, it occurred in the exact way it had to, and completely by God’s decree. Nothing acts on its own, not even a molecule.
This is all backed up by the Westminster Confession of Faith. It also says that nothing happens outside of God’s direct control. This a great comfort to Tim.
If not even one molecule can be outside of God’s sovereign control, then Tim knows that it follows that man cannot act outside of God’s decrees. No maverick molecules means no maverick thoughts. No maverick desires. No maverick choices. If man acts, God decreed that action. John Calvin confirmed in his “Institutes of the Christian Religion”, that it would be foolish to say that God only permits events to occur (even sin), but, instead, is the very author of it all, being completely sovereign over everything.
If God blinds and hardens, and if God opens eyes, and softens, then God controls man’s very will at all times. God decrees a man’s every choice and desire. Man does not make decisions outside of God’s decree. Like the molecule, if even one thought of man is not directly decreed by God, then God is not God. If one thing happens outside of His direct control, He is not 100% sovereign.
RC Sproul says that man does make choices every day. Man is able to choose what he desires most. So, in a way, man is “free” to make choices. But, none of these choices lay outside of God’s decree. God decrees and sets every desire, thus God sovereignly directs how ultimately every man will act in every scenario.
So, if Tim if presented with a choice between A and B, and Tim picks B, God has already decreed, before the foundation of the world, that Tim would desire B and choose B. If not, and Tim chose freely outside of God’s direct decree, then God is not really God. Tim would have thwarted God’s plan, which is impossible.
One day, Tim sees a 100 dollar bill on the ground. He really needs the money, and thanks God for helping him find it. But, then he sees another man in a suit looking around frantically just across the street. The man in the suit is asking people if they have seen any cash on the ground. Tim thinks for a second. He really needs the money and the man is wearing a nice suit. Tim probably needs it more. Before Tim was a believer, Tim had a huge issue with lying and stealing. He never worried about it, but now, he knows both are wrong. Despite knowing it is a sin, Tim hurries away before the man can ask him about the cash, keeping it for himself.
Later, Tim feels bad. Why did he take the money? He is a Christian. He knows what he did was wrong. He was tempted, and he fell right back in his old ways. Into his sin. He repents, asks God for forgiveness, and puts the money into the collection plate without spending any of it. He forgets about it some days later and moves on, vowing to do better.
But, for some reason, Tim keeps sinning. When he is tempted, he fails a lot of the time. Why does he keep desiring to sin so much?
Tim still struggles a lot with lying. He doesn’t know why he does it, but when it would benefit him, he tends to lie to get out of trouble. Tim repents every time, but decides to searches the scriptures for help. One day, he comes upon 1 Corinthians 10:13:
“No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.”
Tim is very happy with the verse, but still a bit confused. He begins to break down the verse logically.
“No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind.”
This is good news. This means Tim isn’t alone. Lots of people must struggle with all types of sins. Lying is probably very common to man!
“And God is faithful”
Yes, He is. Tim smiles, again comforted by the picture it paints of our faithful Father. But what is He faithful to do?
“He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear.”
Hmmm. This part makes Tim uncomfortable. He recalls another verse he read recently. Tim flips over to the book of James:
James 1:13 “When tempted, no one should say, 'God is tempting me. ' For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone”
Tim thinks this verse is very clear, with no ambiguity: God does not tempt anyone. So then, he wonders… what is tempting Tim? Tim keeps reading.
14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
Tim sees that he is tempted by his own desires. He wonders if temptation itself is sinful. He keeps reading:
15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. Sin is birthed when those evil desires are fulfilled.
“Sin is birthed when those evil desires are fulfilled.” So, until you fulfill a sinful desire, it isn’t sinful. You can be tempted and be without sin, just like Jesus in the desert. That is good news! Life will offer many temptations, but temptation itself is not sin.
Yet, Tim is beginning to see a problem, but he hopes more reading can solve it. He goes back to 1 Corinthians.
“But when you are tempted…”
Tim sees this as a clear IF/THEN statement. It doesn’t say “sometimes when we are tempted”, or “most of the time when we are tempted”. It says “when you are tempted”, ie “in every instance when you are tempted”… ok, then what? He keeps reading.
“He will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.”
Tim feels a bit sick and nervous. Every time he was tempted to sin… he had a way out. It was as clear as night and day. God made a promise in this verse, and it is impossible for God to lie. If God said it, it is true and trustworthy. Tim reads it again. He paraphrases a few of the promises he has read in Corinthians and James:
1) All temptations are common to man and seize upon us.
2) Everyone is tempted by their own sinful desires, NOT by God.
3) Every time we are tempted, God will faithfully and without fail, provide a way out to withstand it.
So, if God if telling the truth, when we are tempted, God will provide a way of escape. God will provide a way out so we do not have to sin. We can successfully endure temptation with God’s help.
But, will we always endure the temptation? No, the Bible does not promise this. Paul exhorts the believers to stop sinning and not to return to their old, sinful ways. Obviously, sin was a problem, even for believers. Will we always fail? No, again, the Bible does not say this either. It says we can do anything through Christ who gives us strength. But, Tim is confused. He knows the truth, and yet knowingly rejects it from time to time to follow his own path. He feels like he is doing a bit better, but his condition bothers him.
What does 1 Corinthians 10:13 actually promise to the believer in Christ? Tim reasons that what it must provide, looking at the last week of successes and failures, is an choice: A choice to run out the escape door God promises to provide every time we face temptation or to ignore the path of escape and follow our own desires to fulfillment, giving birth to sin.
Wait. A choice? He thinks back to RC Sproul, who said we make choices every day. We choose what we most desire. So,
Tim, even being a Christian, knowing the truth, sometimes desires to tell a lie more than to following God’s command to be truthful. And where does this desire to sin come from?
Tim knows this evil desire comes from within himself, not from God. Tim’s heart must still contain evil desires. And, according to RC Sproul, Tim freely chooses to sin. Tim is beginning to see a problem: There is not one maverick molecule. God is sovereign. He controls everything, or He is not God, right? If Tim had one thought that was not under God’s direct control, God is not God. If Tim made one choice outside of God’s eternal decree, God is not God. So, was Tim’s choice to steal from the man in the suit already predetermined or did Tim make a choice outside of God’s will? Is Tim’s sin a maverick molecule? It couldn’t be, he thinks, could it?

[AlexanderosD]

" Not a paradox if you don't define sovereignty as determinism!"

Amen!
Thank you Leighton for giving voice against this distorted philosophy.

[gracemercywrath]

I remember when Joel's son was sick in the hospital and Dr. Flowers called to pray with him. That is the heart Dr. Flowers has for Calvinists. Joel shared this on his program and it seemed to mean a lot to him.

[trebmaster]

This is proof that the Calvinist deflection of crying strawman at any representation they don't like has nothing to do with its alleged inaccuracy. THEIR own people use the SAME representations and don't get called out for it and are even praised. It just matters whose tribe you ascribe to, not the facts.

[davidistre]

Gotta love how we are told a sovereign God cannot give man free will… An arrogant paradox, “God is sovereign in the way I say so”…

[timcox]

I heard someone say recently that if Calvinism were true, Satan would be unnecessary. It's really that simple.

[chiakum]

To certain extent Calvinism is walking a thin line close to the Islamic determinism that leads to fatalism.

[mario.migneault]

When you only proof text, you end up like a calvinist, even a Catholic.
I encourage you to leave calvinism and free yourself from guilt if you are struggling. ❤️❤️❤️❤️✝️

[DanOBrien]

Emotionally, Calvinists have to suppress their emotions and conscience and also resist God's Agape love for mankind if they are to believe that God provided no escape for every man, woman and child from the flames of Hell. How can we love our neighbor as ourselves if we believe God rejected most people? Why pray? Why witness? Why would it make a difference? There's too much mental gymnastics going on to reconcile a loving God and Calvinistic determinism. Also, you can see the anguish on their faces and try to make it palpable.

[paulmoore-LPC-LMFT-NCC]

It’s a brutal theology. It’s inflicts so much damage.

[geertjekneefel]

Gnosticism which attacked the early church had many forms and streams (or denominations if we could use the terminology) where one stream to another has differences, and one of the major Gnostic 'stream' which was being fought by Church Father St. Iraneus (the disciple of Polycarp who is the disciple of apostle John) is DETERMINISM which also most possibly type of gnosticism that was being fought by apostle John himself .
This type of gnosticism believes that God has predetermined to create some ELITE chosen people naturally to have 'special knowledge of salvation ' meaning the ATONEMENT is LIMITED ONLY for the few ELITES. It seems this kind of paradigm has evolved and made its perfect mutation in Augustinian philosophy .

[mikem]

God has determined from eternity past, that Calvinism is a false doctrine.

[primeobjective]

If determinism is true, the self vanishes. All are just puppets made of flesh & blood, governed by external forces, outside any human will or extertion.

The "wants", "desires" "will" and "morals" people have, are just the strings God alone established & uses to bring forth His will.

When you sin & disobey, God was the primary causal agent, and theres nothing you couldve done to alter His sovereign will.

[andys]

Funny enough, I always get push back from Calvinists when I post on YouTube that I used to be a 5 point Calvinist and then the litmus tests start coming at me to see if I was a "real" Calvinist. It's like they can't believe people use their free will to leave Calvinism or that God had to determine it to happen! LOL. On a serious note, pretty much every interaction with them has a script.

[RR-ueim]

Iv heard a guy say he wasn’t elect because he struggled with sin! He stopped going to church

[mikelyons]

Another great concise video. May I add for Calvinist comment readers. Many Calvies have quoted Proverbs 21:1 to me thinking it's a proof text supporting Absolute Determinism/Theistic Determinism/Meticulous Determinism.

So the God whom said "Thou shalt not murder" & whom hates divorce & whom inspired Paul to write "This is the will of God that you abstain from sexual immorality"... that God made King David commit adultery then arrange Uriah's death? It always gets down to Calvinism vs Scripture.

[TonysRagequit]

The problem with Calvinism is that it attempts to honor God, but in the attempt to do so, it portrays him as evil, once you think about it more deeply.

They try to show him respect by claiming, everything is 100% the way he wants things to be. He programmed some people to suffer eternally in hell and others to be eternally blessed in heaven, for his glory. This means, that God's glory is more important to him than his creation.

There is also the claim - although I'm not sure if this is official Calvinist doctrine - that the suffering of those in hell contrasts the bliss of those in heaven, therefore those in heaven are even more blessed.

First of all, have you ever eaten a really good steak, and while you were eating, you thought, "Wait a minute, something's missing here"? Then you got up, took your laptop and looked up images of starving children on Google, so that the fact, that you have food and they don't, further increases your blessings? I'm sorry, but if you've ever done that, you're a sick man and you need some help.

Secondly, Paul writes in Romans 3, that the great injustice of man contrasts the great justice of God. God's honesty is further proven by the dishonesty of men. There's this big contrast. Now Paul also writes, that they were accused of saying, "Let's do evil, so that good may come." They were accused, of saying, "Let us live in sin, so that God's holiness looks greater." But this is - in abother form - what Calvinists accuse God of. They claim, that God does evil (predetermines people to hell) so that good comes (predetermines people to heaven). His violent, brutal side is there to contrast his merciful side. "Just be glad, you're on his good side, because boy, do you see them in hell down there? I'm sure glad not to be in their shoes."

[Drspeiser]

Something interesting I've noticed is that nobody preaches about "Assurance of Salvation" more than Determinists. Wonder why...

[MarkRidlen]

The difference between a paradox and a contradiction is that a paradox is an apparent contradiction can be logically explained (e.g. a crucified messiah). A contradiction cannot be explained. A paradox without an explanation is, for all intents and purposes, is a contradiction.