Jordan Peterson - On Polyamory

[angelsrosena]

As a woman I’d rather DIE alone than sharing my energy with a man that does the same with other women during the week.

[thescoon]

Everything you do in life is a compromise. Polyamory is compromising intimate depth, for intimate breadth, and I will place bets that the depth you lose is far greater than the breadth you gain. Do what you want, but don’t then complain that you feel unloved or dejected; that’s the compromise you should have considered *before* opening things up.

[nickwilliams]

I prefer the way Dan Savage addresses this issue: "I've been to a few one-year poly amorous anniversaries; I've never been to a ten-year one."

Savage's analysis of the reason for this is that it's hard enough for _two_ people to make the sacrifices and compromises neccessary for an intimate relationship to work. For every extra person you throw in, that number of sacrifices and compromises increases exponentially.

It's difficult enough to get along with your spouse consistently well. What about your spouse's other partner? What about your spouse's partner's spouse?

[ragnarlothbrok]

I dont mean to insult anybody, but I look and speak like this when I am high, I mean this particular video....I love jordan...and I am high

[NDJ]

Omg yes. I stay telling my friends that In order to have casual sex you have to not care about a person and only see them as something to be used. Glad to finally know I'm not the only one who understands that

[benfaust]

There are these three very powerful words: "I don't know." He obviously doesn't, but is expressing a very strong opinion anyway. Polyamory makes men violent??? Maybe polygamy, the kind winked at in the Old Testament by its deity. Maybe taking virgin girls as spoils of war, like was instructed during a "godly" battle. But polyamory? I've seen the exact opposite to be true. Monogamy is more likely to produce male abusers who are highly possessive and act in jealous rage. But Polyamory? If you don't know what something is, REALLY know, just say so. Don't go on a rant about how bad it is when you obviously don't even know anything about it.

[williamgiusti]

Polygamy is a matrimony (social pact) made between the parts of a polyamory relationship, this is why he isn't making much distinction between them.

To understand what he is saying you must have previous knowledge of his assumptions, which aren't explicit as this is a Q&A not a lecture.

Let me summarize my understanding of his viewpoints based on certain videos I watched about him:

1-Psychometrical data about male romantic priorities point towards man wanting women who:
.Are physically loyal exclusively to them.
.Helps them organize their lives without becoming authoritarian.
.Provide emotinal support to their partner and their children on subjective aspects of their problems.

2-Psychometrical data about female romantic priorities point towards woman wanting men who:
.Are emotionally loyal exclusively to them.
.Can bear the brunt of an agressive environment to provide for the couple and their children.
.Provide emotional support to their partner and their children on objective problems of their daily lives.

3-Sexual desire is one of the intrinsic forces driving human behaviour:
.Males without females become more depressed, erratic and prone to acts of violence against others.
.Females without males become more depressed, indisposed and prone to acts of violence against themselves.

4-Sexual intercourse can result in pregnancy and is the vector for several diseases.

A-Based on 1, 2, 3 and 4 the problems of polyamory for a male with multiple females are:
.The more females, the less time their male has for each and the more vulnerable they become to negative behaviour.
.The more females a single male has, the more likely his family will be targeted by negative behaviour from single males.
.The more females a single male has, the harder it is for him to check if they are being loyal to him or cheating with someone else.
.The more females a single male has, the harder it is for the family to plan their children and distribute their resources amongst them.
.If anyone cheats or gets into the harem with STD, everyone will be contaminated very quickly.

B-Based on 1, 2 and 3 the problems of polyamory for a female with multiple females are:
.The more males, the less time their female has for each and the more vulnerable they become to negative behaviour.
.The more males a single female has, the more likely she and other partners will be targeted by negative behaviour within the family.
.The more males a single female has, the harder it is for her to check if they are being loyal to her or cheating with someone else.
.Females are more likely to feel emotionally betrayed if they discover some of their partners are engaging in homosexual relationships within the harem.
.The more males a single female has, the harder it is for each male to have children and the less time the female has avaiable for anything else than reproduction.
.The effects of multiple successive pregnancies on a single woman can ruin her health.
.If anyone cheats or gets into the harem with STD, everyone will be contaminated very quickly.

Considering premises 1, 2, 3 and 4 alongside consequences for A and B, it's doable to infer that any romantic arrangements between more than two people become exponentialy more unstable the more people you add regardless of their sexuality.

I didn't mention a hypothetical relationship between 2=< males with 2=<females but even if everyone was bisexual the long term romantic stability still becomes exponentially harder to achieve.

[joshuamccoy]

His argument is specifically against polygamy rather than polyamory proper. In polyamorous communities ive interacted with, women drive promiscuous behavior just as much as men do, and often set the pace of open relationships, even when the men have dominant personalities. These facts give significant challenge to the idea that a few individual men will simply sequester all the women. I think its possible that the material independence of women and more-so the advent of birth control may change the game sufficiently that the mechanism which may have driven women to be exclusive to one man in the past may no longer be particularly powerful.

Polyamory = men and women both have multiple partners
Polygamy =men have several wives
Polyandry = women have several husbands

[toyjacktheoslockart]

Sounds like he started talking about polygamy instead of polyamory and then started talking about free-love that dissolved into hedonism.

[dmal]

This is horseshit. He is assuming that so many people would choose to have a poly relationship. To the point where so many women are a secondary partner that they are unavailable to a single male. Many people in poly relationships will have multiple relationships. You jave to understand that this is peoples individual rights. Peterson in interjecting his religious beliefs into his philosophy, which is fair i get it. Ultimately he is saying something is bad that he has never had any experience of. He is saying monogamy is the only answer, while divorce rates are at 50% and cheating is rampant. Divorce os far more destabilising for childern than have 2, 3 or even 4 loving adults. What this boils down to is who you pick as your partner or partners. Thats it. There will be good and bad marriages and good and bad poly arrangements. Some people get lucky and some dont.

The fact that he says it makes men violent when they can get with a woman...poly relationships are in the extreme minority atm, the vast vast majority of people are in monogomas relationships ( cheating not withstanding the pount) and there are still sad little angry men who cant get laid or find a person to be monogmas with.

I used to love peterson and some of his points are really relevant. But i have fohnd if you really listen to him and scratch the surface even a little but most of what he says is nonsense.

I am in a loving monogamas relationship btw.

[lordken]

Poly sometimes only works when your young and attractive. When your old and ugly your priorities of what’s important changes FAST

[edcorne]

For those in the comments who feel Peterson lacks the full picture and is not giving a satisifying anwser. I would guess that Peterson hasen't really devled in deep to the subject and is only apporaching from what he knows in the moment the question was being answered. So take his answer with a grain of salt, find what you like/ don't like, and move on from there.

[KuroiHato]

Only IMO... I am monogamous but I personally think there is a massive difference between closed relationships and open relationships. Like in certain parts of Asia women are in polyandry marriages. One woman, multiple husbands. It is the best way for all to survive. The partners only are supposed to sleep within the confines of the union. Trust and bonding can still be established because everyone unites together and knows they are locked for life.

The issue seems to be when the relationships are open. If everyone is not honest and completely into the same lifestyle it is difficult. Not to mention the lack of intimate bonding that should happen between people deeply in love. If you're sharing your body with people you barely know & one night stands it does seem that it would take away the sacredness of bonding intimately. Just IMO...

[sadoxell]

What I would give to talk to this guy for an hour.

[ryanthomson]

As some one who tried polyamory to save his marriage, it doesn't work. If some one doesn't share your morals run from them if you feel romantic to them. All you do is poison your own mind trying to be something your not built for and not enforced by society. It made my life shallow in a way I never thought possible.

[Highvibin]

I don’t want children but I still don’t believe being an option to someone is healthy . One way or another someone will get hurt. When I am in I’m all in and sharing someone doesn’t sound fun to me at all besides the stds . It completely destroys our trust in another person.

[tone]

This is based on the assumption of polyamory=casual sex which for most in the community is far from the truth.

[batfly]

2:40 the word psychopathic keeps leaking / leaping / leaking to mind. Parapraxis (Freudian slip)?

[megan]

I agree one woman per man is a better way for society to function ideally and should probably remain the norm.
However, people have had affairs and cheated since the beginning of time. To not address this aspect of human behaviour is an act of denialism.
People who cheat and have issues with open relationships/swinging etc etc are hypocrites.

[anarkitype]

I keep trying to explain this to people. No luck, people do not understand emotional psychology at all.