Did God create man out of pride?

Frank Turek and Tim Stratton respond to the charge that God is filled with pride and demands that we bow down to Him. Is that really loving of God?

➡️ Support CrossExamined (Tax-Deductible)

⬇⬇⬇𝗦𝗢𝗖𝗜𝗔𝗟 𝗠𝗘𝗗𝗜𝗔⬇⬇⬇

⬇⬇⬇𝗥𝗘𝗦𝗢𝗨𝗥𝗖𝗘𝗦⬇⬇⬇

⬇⬇𝗦𝗨𝗕𝗦𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗕𝗘 𝗧𝗢 𝗢𝗨𝗥 𝗣𝗢𝗗𝗖𝗔𝗦𝗧⬇⬇⬇

#FrankTurek #TimStratton #God

[DanielApologetics]

Idolatry of the finite is adultery towards the Infinite God. He don't need us, we need Him.

[TheLegendofMclovin]

"...God loves us so much that He leaves us alone, that's what hell is"

Such heavy words but such truth in them.

[CrippledSuns]

Is *love* _of_ something or nothing? That is to say: is love directed at something or at nothing.
If God is love then He naturally needs something to spend His love on: and for as long as there is nothing to spend His love on, there is no meaning for the existence of His love. And as love is not forced and does not force; love is the foundation of freedom - without freedom there is no love and without love there is no freedom.
Is *mercy* _given_ to something or to nothing?
Mercy requires a legal standard of right and wrong - and it requires a standard of punishment for when that law is broken: so if God is merciful then He naturally needs a legal standard of right and wrong. And if the law exists but there is no one that lives under the law that can freely choose for themselves whether to live by that law or not, it makes the existence of the law meaningless. And only when someone does that which is defined by the legal standard as wrong can mercy be given - but if there is no one to break the law out of their own free will, there is no possibility for God to give His mercy.
So if God is full of love and mercy then He naturally needs to have something to spend His love on and He needs to create a legal standard for those whom He loves to live by and when they break that law and ask God to forgive them for breaking the law, that's when God can give His mercy.
And if God created humanity out of love and for Him to specifically love us, then we were created out of love and for love's sake: if this is the case then our very source of existence is love. Our very purpose would be to return to our creator and we would do that through love for Him and for others - if this is the case then the reason why we are here would as such be _to love._ But we cannot, in actuality, love if we reject the very source of love, our creator. And this lines up quite perfectly with what Christ said when He compressed the whole of the law into first: 'love God' and second: 'love others as you love yourself'.
And if this holds true that we must return to God through our love for Him then that means that only those that love God will enter into the kingdom of God - and this lines up perfectly with another thing Christ said, which is that "If anyone loves me, he will obey my words, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him. The person who does not love me does not obey my words. And the word you hear is not mine, but the Father’s who sent me."

[UriyahYasharal]

Amen. I found Dr. Turek's answer to be a much better one than the first gentleman's.

Edit: Wow, I wasn't expecting so many likes and comment activity over my innocent observation. Thanks, lol.😅

[SM-rvyt]

Imagine creating the entire universe and an earth with humans with free will and they decide to not give you the proper credit and thanks deserved. Instead they give credit to statues of gold or even worse, they say that no one made it and it just happened by accident. But the humans praise each other instead, they write songs about their friends or past relationships, they have parties to celebrate and praise a married couple, they congratulate their friends when they win the race, they celebrate and bring gifts for the day someone was birthed, they praise singers in concerts (lifting hands up in awe too), they even praise themselves. Even though these things are no where compared to what God has done . They worship creation but not the creator … sounds bizzare and hypocritical to me. 🤷‍♀️

[jw]

God created man to show that a lesser being can do more with God than a greater being (angels) can do without him.

[andyspurlin]

Love existed before creation. God is love. God doesn't need us to sustain him in any way. We exist because of his love and his desire to have a relationship with us.

[jaydickerson]

Well in the bible, Pride isnt of God/Jesus, so Pride was never in the mix when God created us

[sierraclark]

“If you declare with your mouth “Jesus is Lord, ” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). Now is the time to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. Obey His commands and repent of your sins because Jesus is coming back soon. Tomorrow isn’t promised.

[MLeoM]

We humans are
Humans: I have lived THIRTY years and I did all this.
(Something goes wrong) Why did God do this to me?

Thank God for everything, that you have arms, legs, eyes and ears and every good thing. Because they come from God. All the bad thing comes as a result of sin and evil or as tests. We blame Him easily but we thank Him hardly. That tells you something about us humans.

[thelogiclockedwithinhuman]

I believe God created us, not just for worship but to have a family of his own and we create our own families we are all different in our own ways, I believe we're all supposed to be different, I have a problem with alot of Modern and Mainstream Christianity, because I see alot of Gnostic beliefs invading Christianity, I don't believe God created us to just bow down and worship him, I believe he created us to be free, especially when I see Genesis and understanding the deeper things of being God's creation, I believe when God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply and have free reign over the Earth I believe those weren't direct commands but rather a desire to see Adam and Eve be happy, I believe once Sin entered the world, is when everything went down hill for all humanity, also I don't believe Matthew 22:30 is referring to companionship between Male and Female I believe Jesus was referring to the ways of Mosaic Law and Arranged Marriages Marry or Given in Marriage or Given and Taken in Marriage, legalistic social contractual agreements, won't have a part in Christ's Kingdom, I believe living in Heaven will be temporary and the New Heavens- New Universe and Earth which I call the New Earth/New Eden, will be our new home and I believe that their both literal, I believe the view of being married to Christ isn't literal but instead symbolic of Christ's Church and their spiritual relationship with Christ and with the Holy Spirit within us, a spiritual unification with God, representing God's physical people and our physical marriage or romantic companionship between a Male and Female shows our individual love for each-other, not a social contractual agreement marriage but one designed as Husband and Wife, not Earthy Marriage but Heavenly Marriage or Edenic Marriage blessed by God himself, I believe God will pair us with our complete equal according to our heart, needs, wants, passions, goals, and desires. I also believe our knowledge of Good and Evil, Imagination, and Memories, will still exist in the New Heavens and New Earth, its just the former things will be gone which I believe is just Sin or as I like to say the physical, mental, and spiritual abuse of the knowledge of Evil, not the knowledge of Evil itself but the physical manifestation of Sin upon creation I believe will be corrected and everything will be renewed and restored completely to what it was originally and new because we're going to make creation itself our paradise, I believe our existence is based solely on loving God and being free to do as we want as long as it doesn't lead to the abuse of knowledge itself to create Sin, I believe our new bodies will be youthful and both spiritual and physical and perfect in the sense Sin won't exist and we can balance the knowledge of Good and Evil just like our creator, but not become God but become like him as in his image and likeness as co creators as we create video games, music, movies, books, fantasy characters, etc... I think God sending his son into the world to save us from Sin is a clear indicator that God loves his creation, I'm a Christian not out of fear but because I'm blessed to exist and be myself and I used to be a hyper fanatic radical Christian now I realize that being a fanatic and preaching Hell-fire is wrong, if I preach I preach in kindness and respect, I refuse to preach like a fanatic or Christianized Nazi Soldier, I'm trying to become more and more loving and showing Christ's love to everyone I talk to, I used to believe Eternal Hell-Fire and Torment, now I believe in a temporary Hell-Hades and I believe Hell/Hades is a prison with personal individual punishments based severity levels of Evil within and then utter and complete destruction in the Lake Of Fire/Gehenna-Second Death, I believe the Second Death is reserved and set for the Purely Wicked, the ones who love and follow Lucifer and Pure Evil, the ones that hate God and fully reject Christ's sacrifice on the cross... Research Origins Of Hell-Fire and your views may change on Hell too and become an annihilationist just like me, I believe Hell-Hades and Gehenna/Lake Of Fire are two different and places, once I saw Hell and Death will be thrown into the Lake Of Fire I think it was somewhere in Revelation I became convinced of Annihilationism completely and haven't seen any evidence that points back to Eternal Hell-Fire, I find that its either destruction, perish, or kill both body and soul, thank-you for reading everything I wrote and God Bless you all peace...

[sylesterjones]

The word says that God created us to love him and for his good pleasure. He doesn't need us. But because he's a loving God he created us to share his love. And if we don't want to love him, he still loves us and leaves us alone.

[festushaggen]

For God's people, it's a relationship and when you meet and experience God, you'll worship Him. His natural state is that of majesty, holiness, righteousness, power and love. People here bow down to kings, queens and religious figures but they're just humans. God is actually worthy of man's worship and worship is our natural reaction to who and what God is. He loves His children and we love Him back with obedience, praise and worship. For the born again believer, it's a joy to worship and praise God and bask in His presence.

For those who reject God and would rather be judged for their sins, the good news for them is they don't have to spend eternity with God. Outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth and the fires of Hell will be their home. They can continue to curse God and blaspheme Him as they do now. But make no mistake, before that judgement, they will kneel before Christ at the judgement seat. As it is written, "Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Philippians 2:9‭-‬11

Might as well do it now and receive the benefits. Repent and believe in Jesus Christ.

[hewhositsuponfroggychair]

Day 240:

The last of the stragglers have been exterminated. Washington has been destroyed. Our last strongholds are being breached as I write. Frank Turek has stopped speaking in an incredibly loud voice. Humanity has fallen.

[jeffreylardizabal]

A chief character trait of God is that he is the Creator of all things, and about such he states in Romans 1:25 that those who are fallen worshipped the created rather than the Creator who is praised forever. The summation of all humanities efforts is summed up in one lesson: to learn to "do everything, heartily, as unto the Lord, and not as unto man."
In order to do this we must know God: the first command - know the Lord thy God with your entire being.
Finally, if we know him, his character, and his love for us from knowing him, we can trust him with his second command - to love our neighbors as ourselves, with our neighbors being everyone, for, if we do not forgive we will not be forgiven.
Forgiveness is the operative principle of this world, wherein we find the love of God, sacrificing himself in order that we would, through his only begotten Son, have presence with God.
Righteousness will be the rule of eternity; wherein, because we will have been made in the righteousness of God by the blood of the lamb, we'll fulfill his purpose for us in eternity - which will be everpresence and unity of relationship with him, along with all those who trusted in Christ for Salvation.
The only thing better than a three part harmony is a chorus, and all of us who have believed will be as he is, image bearers as sons and daughters of God, with endless love and creativity times eternity, to do everything, heartily, as unto the Lord, and no longer unto either man nor the things we formerly craved in our earthly bodies which detracted from his perfect love for us, here.

[NewCreationInChrist]

Love the Creator this will give you the power to love yourself and others, in this fallen world.
🙏🙌📖 Philippians 4:13
evil<live

[jasond]

I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever. His dominion is an eternal dominion; his kingdom endures from generation to generation. All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: “What have you done?”Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything he does is right and all his ways are just. And those who walk in pride he is able to humble.

[Derek_Baumgartner]

Great vid: thanks for this.

Frank's answer is a great way to view the matter.

[radgooklos]

God created a situation where the best for humanity is to worship him. That is what an egotistical manipulator does.

[kirkkohnen]

Of course not. God created man out of dirt.