Are We Born Guilty of Sin?

Bishop Irenei of London & Western Europe (ROCOR)
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[TheUncreatedLight]

The video is literally titled “are we born GUILTY of sin?” Not “are we born under sin?” All of these people accusing His Grace Bishop Irenei of heresy prove the exact point of his video; that they believe in an un-Orthodox conception of original sin.

[chasehaggard]

Thank you Your Eminence. People sin not Natures. Our nature inherits the EFFECTS of Sin from Adam, not the Guilt.
As Saint John of Damascus says
“The root of all heresies is the confusion of Person and Nature”- On the Orthodox Faith

[WORKOUTSOLUTIONS]

❤☦ CHRIST IS RISEN ☦❤

❤💪🙏☦ GOD HAVE MERCY ON US SINNERS ☦🙏⛪️🕊

[helovesmankind]

"Our nature contracted the disease of sin because of the disobedience of one man, that is Adam, and thus many became sinners. This was not because they sinned along with Adam, because they did not then exist, but because they had the same nature as Adam, which fell under the law of sin… the whole nature of man became guilty in the person of him who was first formed."

+ St Cyril of Alexandria

[adeporter]

God bless you, Your Eminence. I always really appreciate your reflections. This distinction about sin was one of the big turning points in my investigation into Orthodoxy and eventually becoming a catechumen. (Newly illumined as of this Lazarus Saturday!)

[ZZZELCH]

Excellent video!
And it looks like all 429 Twitter inquisitors have found it as well.

[justinhutchison]

"Original sin is inherited and transferred to all men—When we accept human nature from Adam, we also accept sinful corruption, which is why people are born "children of wrath by nature", because the righteous wrath of God rests on Adam's sin-infected nature"
(St. Justin Popovich)

[sooperdt]

Glory to God father, thank you. Christ is risen.

[annalynn]

This is some comment section, calling the Russian Orthodox bishop a heretic! Sad!

[patrickghaly]

I have to defend Bishop Irenei here from the accusations of heresy. He is not saying that humans are born without sin (he explicitly states that the power of sin touches all of us even before we open our eyes as babies). He is saying this against the argument that we are guilty of sinning from the womb because of the sins that our parents committed. I believe in a just God, and I can’t imagine that God would judge us because of something that we had no control over! Of course I cannot know God’s judgement fully, but I don’t believe that I am to be condemned because of what my parents did—this is not fair and just for me or them.
The “born spotless” remark may be overly going the other direction, but please don’t take that and ignore the rest of the video. Let’s be critical thinkers here.

[HubertofLiege]

Haven’t you noticed how infants and toddlers attention within the sanctuary is often up in air?
They see the hosts around us, because they can.

[gwlevits]

I don’t think His Grace is making an outright theological statement here: he’s saying infants aren’t born sinning. They’re incapable of it. But they’re also incapable of practicing virtue. They can’t disobey God, but they also can’t actively obey Him. They’re not storing up treasures in Heaven. I think St. Gregory talks about that when he discusses what happens to infants who die.

I think people in the comments are going way too deep into an Original Sin argument that isn’t required.

[baloneyusmonk]

Dr Michael Heiser also tackled this idea of original sin, and it stems in no small part from Augustine, who, a preferred Latinist, used defective manuscripts to arrive at this concept of original sin. This is heresy. We are born with the capacity to sin, but we don’t inherit guilt.

If one believes one is born with the guilt of Adam, for the sake of consistency you then are telling parents who suffered the death of a newborn that their child is in damnation. Is that truly congruent with the character of God, who is both most compassionate and the just judge?

[hernanmendoza]

Father forgive, I am but a laymen, I have no right to speak against you, I speak as a fool, as a proud fool. Maybe my pride is getting the best of me. I am sure that you only wanted to do us good. But father, I have been taught that we are all sinful in our nature, we are not born pure, and this is why our Lord came to save us, and this is also why He sent us prophets and teachers, for us to understand and find the right way, because He knew our sinfulness and our corruption. I am a sinner, which means that I am entitled to be helped by God, not that I am entitled to be punished by Him
If I have misunderstood please clarify for me my misunderstanding, I will obey, if this is Gods will. Please forgive all misconveniences and excuse my brothers and sisters for their verbal assaults, they are only trying to protect you and our faith from misunderstandings and misconceptions, they mean no harm.

Pray for us dear father!
Amen!.

[johnsambo]

As an ordinary part of the human race, born into the world the ordinary way, Mary was not without sin. Romans 3:23 teaches that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Mary was an exception to this rule. The apostle John wrote, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us” (1 John 1:8–10). The “we” in this passage includes Mary, the mother of Jesus. To claim Mary is without sin is an example of “deceit.”

[czuw]

Bishop Irenei (pardon if i misspelled) clearly states we are born pure as Adam as was born pure; which means we are born with the same guilt as Adam, which is none. He never said we are born in the same state. Prior to this, he explicitly states that sin is all around us, affecting the world. The implication is obvious: sin affects everything in the world, which means us, even in the womb; however, we are NOT BORN WITH ANY GUILT. And isn’t that what the title states? How are so many getting this wrong? His words are pretty clear.

[colectionaruldesurprize]

@PatristicNectarFilms Please help me out here, because I don't know if this is right: clearly, a newborn has not committed any form of sin, including eating from the forbidden tree. Therefore, theoretically, the newborn does not need Confession and Repentance (letting aside their physical impossibility). However, the newborn needs Baptism because of the inherited consequences (= fall-ness) of Adam and Eve’s sin. Is this right?

[IvanGarcia-khlu]

@PatristicNectarFilms

Father,
Are you saying, then, that we have a capacity to sin because of this "ancestral sin", as compared to the Catholic dogma of concupiscence?

[alexanderbrown]

“In Adam we became co-inheritors of the curse, not as if we disobeyed that divine commandment with him but because he became mortal and transmitted sin through his seed. We became mortals from a mortal…” – St Anastasius of Sinai, Questions and Answers

“Human nature is sinful from its very conception. God did not create man sinful, but pure and holy. But since the first-created Adam lost this garment of sanctity, not from any other sin than pride alone, and became corruptible and mortal, all people also who came from the seed of Adam are participants of the ancestral sin from their very conception and birth. He who has been born in this way, even though he has not yet performed any sin, is already sinful through this ancestral sin.”

“Thus, in soul Adam died immediately, as soon as he had tasted [from the fruit of that tree from which God had commanded him not to taste, threatening him that if he should only taste of it he should die]; and later, after nine hundred and thirty years, he died also in body. For, as the death of the body is the separation of it of the soul, so the death of the soul is the separation from it of the Holy Spirit… Later, for this reason, the whole human race also became such as our forefather Adam became through the fall – mortal, that is, both in soul and body. Man such as God had created him no longer existed in the World.”– St Symeon the New Theologian, Homily 37:3; Homily 45:3

“If the conception of God had been from seed, He would not have been a new man, nor the Author of new life which will never grow old. If He were from the old stock and had inherited its sin, He would not have been able to bear within Himself the fullness of the incorruptible Godhead or to make His Flesh an inexhaustible Source of sanctification, able to wash away even the defilement of our First Parents by its abundant power, and sufficient to sanctify all who came after them.” – St Gregory of Palamas, Homily 14:5

“Everyone in the following of Adam has died, because they have all inherited their nature from him. But some have died because they themselves have sinned, while others have died only because of Adam’s condemnation – for example, children” – St Gennadius Scholarius

“In Adam I fell, in Adam I was cast out of paradise, in Adam I died. How shall God call me back, except He find me in Adam? For just as in Adam I am guilty of sin and owe a debt to death, so in Christ I am justified.” – St Ambrose of Milan, On the Death of His Brother Satyrus

[chiefamongsinners]

St. Symeon the New Theologian, Homily on Ancestral Sin and our Regeneration

That saying that calls no one sinless except God, even though he has lived only one day on earth, does not refer to those who sin personally, because how can a one-day old child sin? But in this is expressed that mystery of our Faith, that human nature is sinful from its very conception. God did not create man sinful, but pure and holy. But since the first-created Adam lost this garment of sanctity, not from any other sin but from pride alone, and became corruptible and mortal, all people also who come from the seed of Adam are participants of the ancestral sin from their very conception and birth. He who has been born in this way, even though he has not yet performed any sin, is already sinful through this ancestral sin.