Michael Heiser critiques the “church-age” long doctrine of Original Sin

This clip is taken from the Naked Bible Podcast. It was part of an answer to a question about abortion and what happens to babies who are aborted.

This channel is for promoting N.T. Wright and teachings like his from Wright and scholastic colleagues of like-faith. We hope you will enjoy.

[nancystorm]

After I miscarried, a well-intentioned Calvinist told me my baby was burning in hell. Thank God for Michael Heiser's clarity of thought. He will be missed!

[markwiggins]

This is the best explanation I’ve ever heard. Thank you so much even though you’ve already passed into the unseen realm. I can’t wait to meet you.

[kimstrickland]

This brings to mind the passage 1 Kings 14:12-13, where the prophet Ahijah tells the wife of Jeroboam that her infant that was sick will die, be mourned and be buried, and be the only one of Jeroboam's family who shall come to the grave, because in him there is found something good toward the Lord God of Israel. (paraphrase of NKJV). The child was too young to share in the sin and guilt of his father, he died early and escaped the fate the rest of the family would face.

[CR]

I'm 47 years old, raised in the church. This is the only answer to the question about infant deaths I have ever heard that makes any sense without "reading between the lines" of the Bible. Thank you!

[lukegaier]

The more I read scripture, the more I realize that if my theology seems to defy common sense, then my theology is most definitely faulty. God is logical, His creation is logical, and scripture is logical, but we're often so hindered by our traditional religious preconceptions that we look right past the logical truth staring us in the face and favor the illogical belief we already hold, and we call it "faith".

[dillydanny-o]

This is exactly what I needed and what I have been searching for—and it brings me such joy! Heiser thank you so much for this message.

[JacquelineHahn]

What a blessing the teachings from Michael have been to me many things I have believed has been confirmed by him and it encourages me to stand firm

[markanderson]

Michael Heiser was awesome. So much knowledge. He cleared up so much for me.

[vitaignis]

The Eastern church fathers got this right. Historically, and to this day, the Eastern Orthodox have held the correct viewpoint on this issue. This doctrinal error largely falls on Augustine and those who follow his teachings.

[tedfordhyde]

Amen to the max! Thank you Doctor Heiser for being faithful to teach this important issue and the truth of it. The lies have permeated Christianity for too long!

[barbarasmith]

In the story about when David's baby died, it said one day David would go to b e with the baby.

[OkieAllDay]

Eastern Orthodoxy teaches the exact same thing! Good job, Mr Heiser 👍

[tedclemens]

Thank you for a new view of Romans 5:12. Note too that the verse said, "sin" entered the world through one man..., not "guilt." So Adam's guilt wasn't transferred, only the action that caused it. (Can anyone deny mankind's propensity to err (sin)?) But we need to talk about sin—what it is, its effects, and how it's caused.

[Traildude]

Listening to this for about the third time I have to come to the defense of the church Fathers: saying "the church Fathers" are responsible is wildly inaccurate because it was really just one, Augustine, who while he was brilliant in some ways was too fixated on guilt and saw it where it wasn't. The idea of transmitted guilt comes from the notion that each human soul is formed from the substance of the souls of the parents, and that guilt sticks with everyone because all our souls are in essence just tiny pieces of Adam's soul -- a theory that most church Fathers denounced, responding that each soul is a new one.
When Dr. H says what we inherit is mortality, he uses the exact same words as St. John Chrysostom and Maximus the Confessor. What he misses is that western theology regarded the problem of our standing before God as a legal issue, whereas the east regarded it as a relational issue, and in a legal framework guilt is the big question whereas in a relational framework the big question is about separation, so in the legal framework if children aren't pure and holy there must be guilt at play whereas in a relational framework it's separation at work.

[diannahunt]

Thank you Dr. H I wish I heard you when I was growing up Catholic! So much unnecessary pain!

[gracenroses]

Such helpful Biblical distinctions. So incredibly helpful.

[joshua]

Hey michael I just wanted you to know that I’m praying for your healing and I hope you’re doing well.

Also just wanted to say that I get so overwhelmed with the different denominations and finding the “right one” and your video response to a guys email on that subject was exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you so much for all of your work.

[digiclectic]

Contrary to Heiser's interpretation, It would be unjust for everyone to die for Adam's sin if they themselves were not born with a propensity to sin. Note that I said "propensity to sin" and not "Adam's guilt". It is that propensity to sin that we inherited, not the actual sin that Adam himself committed, though we are prone to choose what we think is right vs what God determines to be good and right, just as Adam did. So like David, we can rightly say "in sin did my mother conceive me" (referring to the propensity and not the actual sins resulting from that). As to children in the womb, even Jacob was grabbing Esau's heel on the way out (to try to usurp his firstborn status), so yes, they have a propensity to sin, but the question is, are they banished from God's presence prior to an awareness of right and wrong? When David lost his child due to David's sin, David had the assurance that he would see that child again. So obviously, in God's justice, He takes into account the capacity of a child to understand that they've transgressed God's law. If a child lacks that understanding, in His sovereign justice, God puts that to Christ's account, who suffers the little children to come unto Him, for such is the kingdom of heaven.

[redit]

I'm so glad to know my aborted sister will be raised and with the LORD at final judgment and afterward in the new Kingdom.

[Saratogan]

"The first man out of the earth dust. The second Man out of heaven, a life-giving Spirit." "In Adam all die... in Christ all are made alive". Who are you IN? Answer that question because it all turns on one's specific state.