Vitamin A Toxicity. How much to eat as kids and during pregnancy? The Science w/ Dr. Smith - Part 2

In this 2nd part of a 2-part interview with Dr. Garrett Smith, we discuss the different forms of vitamin A and the body’s ability to absorb these nutrients.

We discuss the following in this 2-part episode:

- Basics about Vitamin A
- Can eating natural Vitamin A from foods, especially animal sources, be toxic?
- Is vitamin A from supplements and food sources the same?
- Is there a difference in toxicity between natural and synthetic forms of Vitamin A?
- Does the body really turn food Vitamin A into the same chemicals as Accutane and Retin-A?
- Is there a variation from person to person in terms of how susceptible one might be to Vitamin A toxicity?
- How much liver should a pregnant woman eat?
- How much liver should you eat for bone health?
- How much liver should a baby eat?
- What is the relationship between Vitamin A toxicity, insulin resistance, and thyroid function?
- Weston A Price, Ray Peat and Nose to Tail Carnivores—what they all have in common
- Zinc vs Vitamin A
- Vitamin D vs Vitamin A

Citations discussed in episodes:

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DR. GARRETT SMITH RESOURCES:

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ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
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FIND ME:
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**DISCLAIMER: I am only here to provide support as a nutritional therapy practitioner and I am not providing medical advice. I always recommend working with a team of holistic practitioners, including your PCP and a certified nutritional therapy practitioner. Do not self-diagnose. Always seek medical guidance when you have a medical condition.
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[Tex]

This is tough information to hear, heartbreaking really when I consider all I’ve done for myself and my kids with good intentions concerning vitamin A. Thank you, Judy and Dr. Smith for sharing this important information.

[williamdouglas]

I love how truth-seeking you are Judy. We need more people like you on this earth.

[nataliemammitzsch]

It would be interesting to see what other doctors like Paul Saladino think about this information...
Please continue with this topic, as I believe it’s an important one !

[nsv]

Blown away by both of you and your passions. What a toxic mess we live in. Praying for "Warrior Knowledge" to continue you bless you. Battle on!

[status-danielho]

I tossed my bottle of cod liver oil out this morning once I finished listening to Garrett and Grant. There was enough reasonable doubt to question continuing supplementation, and look forward to future discussions to dosage recommendations of the other fat soluble vitamins (currently taking 100 mcg K2 MK-7 and ~3000 IU D3).

[charlotteb]

Thanks for this presentation. I have what I believe to be a negative Vit A experience in 2007. I was at a wedding dancing in heels on a hard floor. I felt a crunch in back-lower back/ pelvis area. I suspected a crush fracture as I had one in an accident 11 years earlier. I was somewhat on Aajonus Primal Diet, trying to really eat healthy. I was concerned about bone health - I wondered what in the world am I doing wrong to have this crunch? I got on the internet to research. I was already familiar with Price-Pottinger-Page work. And I ended up on one of these websites. As I reviewed the documentation, I came across the articles regarding Vitamin A toxicity - especially the ones on Artic circle hunters of polar bears that ate the liver becoming sick. I felt this was the answer to my problem. I belonged to local coop where a lot of the members followed Primal diet. Some were touting the benefits of eating raw liver. I ate the ‘salad bar beef’ raw organic pasture-raised, never with a problem. I tried the raw liver - horrible tasting. Since it was sold in 1 lb, vacuum packed bags. I would open and try to eat the liver in 2-3 days as the longer it aged, the worse it tasted raw. I could only get it down by washing it down with lots of raw cow milk. I think this practice contributed to my bone issues, so I stopped the raw liver practice immediately - actually cooked liver as well. Your program timely as I was starting to fall back into the liver consumption again, but this time via organ supplements, cod liver oil, skate liver oil. Unfortunately, it is difficult to stay away from liver supplements as many of the non—liver organ supplements per the name on the bottle are mixed with liver when you check the ingredients. Once I heard an earlier program with Judy and a guest discussing Vit A toxicity, I stopped all liver supplementation. I noticed the pain in my ankles that comes and goes, pretty much stopped. Thanks again for this info and being willing to address.

[christieanderson]

I've been only eating beef for a week and feel much better. All I did was drop bacon and eggs. I wouldn't have thought that I would ever stop eating eggs. Now I lost 1lb in 5 days. And I no longer have gas.

[JasonFuhrman]

Almost done but I'm seeing a few issues. I need to dig into the studies myself though.

1. He talks about carnivore liver toxicity primarily, like polar bear and dogs (extremely high vitamin a content). The only mention I saw of ruminant liver was in the obese family, and we know fatty liver disease inhibits the liver from storing vitamin A.
2. "Why do we need to limit something to 1-2 ounces if it's toxic?" I find that logic troubling. I could kill myself from drinking water, so now I shouldn't drink water? You can dissemble that argument pretty easily.
3. I don't see any information about the pre-existing health of those who did eat ruminant liver and had issues.

Interesting discussion and something to think about, but I feel from what I've seen the data isn't there to support someone consuming some liver as being detrimental to health.

I've been eating liver for about 3 years, including cod liver (actual liver, not just oil.) I understand I may be able to tolerate it better and will revisit if I notice any symptoms, but avoiding it completely as well as minimizing other healthy foods like egg yolks and butter seems shortsighted.

Why aren't we seeing rampant vitamin a toxicity in Scandinavian cultures who heavily consume cod liver oil?

I appreciate the deep dive, but think there is more research to be done before demonizing foods we've been eating for thousands of years.

[johan-zsnc]

Excellent video. Thanks garret and Judy

[julialovullo]

Judy I respect you looking at this challenging topic as a carnivore. So I’m over here trying to figure out what to eat besides muscle meat. I would really appreciate a fleshing out of what this means for a carnivore especially if animal fats contain high doses of vitamin A and fat is how we stay satiated...I’m also trying to figure out what to do for my family, 5 small kids raised more or less on Price’s general guidelines (besides stop the cod liver oil and rare liver). Thank you so much for your work and may God bless your research

[VERACRUZSANRAFAEL]

Thanks for this second part of the video and i ll be sharing it with my people. Thanks to Dr Smith for all this data.

[Baptized_in_Fire.]

Dr Garrett's opponents: "Children like sugar, so you're wrong"
Dr Garrett: "Crackheads like crack, so I'm still right"
Feel free to use that one, doc.

[_sidereal]

I wouldn't dismiss everything Dr. Smith said, but some of his points didn't sit right for me. The thing that stands out the most was his logic that because there is an upper limit to vitamin A consumption, it means that it's inherently toxic or that humans don't need it at all. It's surprising to me that someone who has studied nutrition and physiology to such an extent would make such a fallacy, when the idea that "the dose makes the poison" is common sense at this point. Even water can be (fatally) toxic if you force down more than your body can handle at once. Does this mean that humans don't require hydration? Of course not. The reason that death from water intoxication is so rare is because it's nearly impossible to drink that much while following your natural sense of thirst. Following your natural instincts, your body will tell you how much you need of hydration, calories, and even micronutrients.

If you try a bit of liver, the taste makes you cringe, and you don't feel like eating another bite, your body is probably trying to tell you something. The problem nowadays is that people think that the health influencers they follow know more about their needs than their own body. People keep looking for ways to try to force liver down, despite their body's instinct to reject it. It makes me think of the people forcing themselves to choke down green smoothies every morning and ending up with oxalate problems.

That being said, I don't think Vitamin A is the root cause of as many issues as Dr. Smith is implying. A bigger problem may be that people have impaired detoxification abilities due to a lifetime of exposure to agrochemicals and environmental toxins, along with gut permeability and dysbiosis. The Vitamin A content in raw dairy (an important part of some of the ancestral diets studied by Weston Price), eggs, and even small-to-moderate amounts of animal liver was not a problem for people in the past. It would make sense that the bodies of healthier people were better at keeping nutrients in balance by excreting anything which was "excess". The point I would agree with Dr. Smith on is that deficiencies in other nutrients has a role. Mineral deficiency is extremely common, and there can also be a problem if someone is getting very large amounts of Vit. A in proportion to the other fat-soluable vitamins such as Vit. D and K2.

[wraymcclamma]

I think the perception of modern dieters is that paleo humans were eating large amounts of liver everyday. And that's false. The organs were shared and most likely given to nursing mothers. The few skeletal remains that show toxicity were young mothers and likely eating mostly liver for food. I can always tell when someone has never subsisted off wild food. Liver has always been a very tiny percentage any humans diet. I LOL when anyone tells me humans were happy omnivores when clearly they've never eatin wild veggies. They're intolerable and no human would choose veggies over meat. So When you eat your liver pretend like you have 6 other hunters to share it with and you'll never go overboard.

[jennypi]

Much better discussion regarding this topic than that last guy. Lots to think about. Thanks, Judy!

[paulat]

Thank you Judy and Dr. Smith for the video. I appreciate the information.

[cketheridge]

Thank you very much for this podcast ☺️ Mind blowing to say the least!

[sahdev]

Morley Robbins says to use retinol. So who is correct?

[brodierohde]

in the 1980s i did the 40iu of codliver oil for a cold and was told bumps on back of arms was a vit a deficiency, but after taking a lot, i started getting very tired a lot and i lost my sharpness and i new it was the vit a, but the literature said otherwise

[Stuart.Branson.]

I never understood why people say what you said - "Goats milk is great" - "Cod liver oil (which probably isn't anything to do with actual fish) is good " all seemed BS to me since they taste like crap.