REBUTTING Gavin Ortlund on baptismal regeneration

In this episode Trent engages Baptist apologist Gavin Ortlund’s arguments against the doctrine of baptismal regeneration.

Ortlund/Cooper Engagements on Baptism

[riverjao]

As a Protestant pastor who reads the Church Fathers I can def say: if anything is universal among the Fathers and throughout church history it’s baptismal regeneration.

[cactoidjim]

Weird thing, when I was Baptized as a Baptist in the mighty Humptulips River (yes, that's really its' name - no I don't know how much alcohol was involved in naming it) there was a *real* change in my life. One I was not expecting. One I was not taught to expect.

Fun fact: the pastor who Baptized me also later became Catholic - totally unbeknownst to me, and for different reasons.

[seanrodrigues]

Ortland: “I hear people say that we twist ourselves into pretzels in order to explain away baptismal regeneration”. Then he proceeds to do exactly that.

[NeilRaleigh]

If you’re a Protestant who finds Gavin Ortlund to be a trustworthy source on controversial Christian doctrines like baptism, just consider that Gavin essentially admits no church father could be a minister at his church. Just think about that. No early church father could be a minister at your church due to their teaching on baptism.

[GratiaPrima_]

Thank God for giving us baptism through Christ. ❤️

As a former Baptist, I was quite surprised to hear Gavin say it is NOT just a symbol. Interesting.

[dlfincher]

I want to be charitable to Gavin, but as a lifelong Baptist educated by some of Evangelicalism’s best (as a pastor), when I saw the historical & scriptural evidence, the issue was (slowly & painfully) settled in favor of baptismal regeneration.
The fact that ZERO church Fathers could pastor his church, but perhaps that they might be invited to discuss certain topics in a dialog, reveals the status of Gavin and his church as SEPARATED from the one true Church of history founded by Christ.
The attitude that, on this issue, nuance is needed; that the truth about an issue so foundational to salvation and the gospel is somehow so mysterious that a plain reading of scripture and the universal testimony of the Church (especially the Apostolic Fathers) is insufficient to discover the truth is just (literally) non-sense.
This kind of thinking and argumentation is exactly what led to Arianism and nearly every other heresy.

The fact that Dr Ortland has no authority greater than his own rational mind in deciding matters of life and death for eternal souls (for whom he will give account) is VERY concerning.
This is not an academic game of ideas. The consequences are too grave.

[serviam]

Excellent video, Trent. Keep them coming!

St. Justin Martyr
"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and are instructed to pray and entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their past sins, we pray and fast with them. *Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same way we were ourselves regenerated.* For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they receive the washing with water. *For Christ also said, “Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven' [John 3:3]"* [First Apology 61].

Origen
*"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants [Matt. **19:14**; Luke 18:15-16; Acts 2:38-39].* For the apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries, knew that there is in everyone the *innate stain of sin, * which must be washed away through water and the Spirit' [Titus 3:5]" [Commentaries on Romans 5:9].

St. Theophilus of Antioch
"On the fifth day [of creation] the living creatures which proceed from the waters were produced, through which also is revealed the manifold wisdom of God in these things; for who could count their multitude and very various kinds? Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men’s being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, *through the water and laver of regeneration, - as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God"* [To Autolycus, Bk II].

St. Hippolytus of Rome
"Perhaps someone will ask, 'What does it conduce unto piety to be baptized?' In the first place, that you may do what has seemed good to God; in the next place, *being born again by water unto God so that you change your first birth, which was from concupiscence, and are able to attain salvation, which would otherwise be impossible. For thus the [prophet] has sworn to us: 'Amen, I say to you, unless you are born again with living water, into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.'* Therefore, fly to the water, for this alone can extinguish the fire. He who will not come to the water still carries around with him the spirit of insanity for the sake of which he will not come to the living water for his own salvation" [Homilies 11:26].

St. Cyprian of Carthage
"[H]ow much rather ought we to shrink from hindering an infant, who, being lately born, has not sinned, except in that, *being born after the flesh according to Adam, he has contracted the contagion of the ancient death at its earliest birth, * who approaches the more easily on this very account to the reception of forgiveness of sins, that to him are remitted, not his own sins, but the sins of another" [Epistle 58].

St. Aphrahat the Persian Sage
"Therefore, my beloved, we also have received of the Spirit of Christ, and Christ dwells in us, as it is written that the Spirit said this through the mouth of the Prophet: I will dwell in them and will walk in them. Therefore let us prepare our temples for the Spirit of Christ, and let us not grieve it that it may not depart from us. Remember the warning that the Apostle gives us: Grieve not the Holy Spirit whereby you have been sealed unto the day of redemption. For from baptism do we receive the Spirit of Christ. For in that hour in which the priests invoke the Spirit, the heavens open and it descends and moves upon the waters. And those that are baptized are clothed in it; *for the Spirit stays aloof from all that are born of the flesh, until they come to the new birth by water, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . ."* [Sixth Demonstration].

St. Cyril of Jerusalem
"But now the holy day of the Passover is at hand, and you, beloved in Christ, are to be enlightened by the *Laver of regeneration.* You shall therefore again be taught what is requisite, if God so will; with how great devotion and order you must enter in when summoned, for what purpose each of the holy mysteries of Baptism is performed, and with what reverence and order you must go from Baptism to the Holy Altar of God, and enjoy its spiritual and heavenly mysteries; that your souls being previously enlightened by the word of doctrine, you may discover in each particular the greatness of the gifts bestowed on you by God" [Catechetical Lecture 18].

St. John Chrysostom
*"For if no one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord [the Eucharist] and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, * and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious?

These verily are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God, and become members of that blessed Head. Wherefore they might not only be more justly feared by us than rulers and kings, but also be more honored than parents; since these begot us of blood and the will of the flesh, but the others are the authors of our birth from God, even that blessed regeneration which is the true freedom and the sonship according to grace" [On the Priesthood, Book III].

St. Jerome Hieronymus
*"Of those engendered of the seed of Adam no man is born without sin, and it is necessary even for babes to be born anew in Christ by the grace of regeneration"* [Letter 144].

[davidball]

I think Gavin is a great person to talk to and I really respect his intentions and methods. I pray these debates shed light on misinterpretations, and the Gavin can approach the true church in time.

[Mrs_Homemaker]

I find it interesting he decides to add complexity and splitting of hairs to something as simple as baptism just to get around the Catholic (and historical) view of baptism. But when it comes to something like the Eucharist, they refuse to look past anything but "do this in remembrance of me" for evidence of the presence of Christ.

The "it's not just a symbol" surprised me coming out of a baptist bc that is 100% the only thing I ever heard from baptists growing up in the South. In common congregation members that is how it is viewed - just as a thing you should do if you answer an altar call, but that's it is nothing more than a symbol.

[ScripturalMormonism]

Trent, as much as we disagree on many core doctrines, your work on baptismal regeneration (here and in The Case for Catholicism) is top-notch material.

[ToxicallyMasculinelol]

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you." Honestly, I don't know how it could get much clearer than this. If ever you needed proof that _sola scriptura_ does not work, that well-intentioned, intelligent, serious people who are dedicating _their very lives_ to Christ and to the study of his truth can look at the same scriptures (even the very simplest and most straightforward ones) and come to diametrically opposed conclusions, this is it. Each human is free to think for himself, free to submit to the Church's teaching or reject it. He can think whatever he wants to about this verse, but if he's going to deny the obvious, plain meaning of the verse, and then turn around and call scripture "perspicuous" or say "the main things are the plain things, " then he is completely intellectually bankrupt.

[AveChristusRex]

"I will be explaining my view"

See I will never understand how this is an acceptable epistemology to anyone. Did Christ leave us Scritures with unknown millions of 'my views' including our own to sift through? Or did He establish a Church which only has one faith?

[mj]

You and Gavin are actually closer than I thought you'd be.

[erroljacobs]

Thank you my brother Trent for explaining .Love from south Africa cape town .💒💒💒💒💒💒💒⛪

[thedomesticmonk]

The problem with Protestant “traditions” is confirmed in the justifications provided by Gavin in his position statements. He always has to acknowledge, (and it is a credit to him that he does so) that Protestants in the tradition he is using to support his argument may differ from that position. That is the problem with Protestantism, if there is no authority, there is no consistency. Truth is consistent. There cannot be many version of it, or it’s no longer truth.

[shlamallama]

Hey guys, let's keep this charitable and not accuse Ortlund of ill-will.

[MrAnomic]

These are the types of rebuttals that I love to watch!!!

[glof]

Gavin presents himself as this meek individual while the better part of his content is railing against Catholicism.

I think a debate is needed.

[OstKatholik]

Now you’ve to rebuttal his last video with CapturingChristianity. I think, Gavin had many points against the papacy, which could be easily answered with the Catholic Catechism.

[brendansheehan]

Trent, that wall is ready for a green screen. You could do rebuttal videos around the world.