Responding To John MacArthur On Calvinism & Union With Christ #biblestudy

[primeobjective]

It says we were "without God" before having any faith in Christ.

Ephesians 2:12
"Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and WITHOUT GOD in the world."

[andrewtsousis]

Pre determinism leads to:

1. A God that decrees everything including evil for His Glory.

2. A God that enables/decrees people to believe in false Gods, not him the one true god.

3. A God that then writes a list of rules he commands must be followed, the first being serve no other gods but him.

This is where pre-determinism leads, this is how Calvinism changes Gods character.

To follow Calvinism you have to believe this version of the Gospel, (which every Calvinist will say is not the Gospel). “Jesus died for your sins, if God regenerates you and enables you to believe, then congratulations your’re saved, and are one of the elect”. That is the Calvinist gospel, and it is not biblical. They will use an excuse and say “we don’t know who the elect are?” But they don’t preach what they believe, Ie because it’s not the gospel.

Calvinism removes our requirement to believe, and regardless of what Calvinists say, it takes the focus off Christs sacrifice alone for Salvation, and puts it on faith in being elect.

Calvinisim is false teaching that should be avoided at all costs, it actually limits Gods power and Sovereignty, it does the complete opposite of what it preaches.

[mikelyons]

This man-inspired theology is embarrassing.

[jolookstothestars]

Plus if the elect are "in" Christ how does Roman's 5:10 fit. If they are "in" Christ how can they be enemies of God? This is the baggage of calvinism, some finally look back at this heavy burden that they have been dragging around and say enough.

[calypsopickett]

I think both things can be true that we have been predestined, but that we have not been made new creations until we accept Christ.

[makedisciples]

Calvinism acknowledges that God is omniscient and then turning God omniscient into God Omni-deterministic
Furthermore, they defend child abuse and all sorts of other horrific sin as being determined by God in advance for His glory

Speaking to the same people (it’s a letter!) Paul says this to the Ephesians…

2:12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

“having no hope and without God in the world”

But earlier Paul told them actually WHEN and how they became“in Christ”
1: 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

“when you trusted and believed” (that happened first) Then they were sealed

Calvinists know this, but they just don’t want others to know

[DelicueMusic]

Imagine being so elect that you didn't need to be born again lol

[Larry_Wolfe]

Given that reality is found in the mind of God and that scripture is clear that before our salvation we were not IN Christ, I fear MacArthur is speaking with a self delusion.

[chrisrealino]

have you noticed the word "NOW" in the passage?

[awesomefacepalm]

If the elect was decreed from eternity past to be saved, then they were eternally part of Gods decree. Thus making at least the elect necessary beings.

[lindajohnson]

If the elect have always been in Christ, who is Paul talking to here?

Ephesians 2:12 KJV — That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

[Jebron_G]

And if that's the case, why have faith? Why believe in Christ, why even live? If in his sight we were in Christ before we were born?? Does God need to wait for us to confirm what he decreed?

[arkhamkillzone]

The old has passed away. They need to pay good attention to that part of the verse.

[johnturano]

I don't need a Calvinist to tell me GOD WONT NEVER REJECT ANYONE AND DOES NOT Predestined soME soulS and he only chooses only the Elect GOD CHOOSES is a total rubbish and misleading many people away from the truth of salvation

[aletheia]

MacArthur said in the mind of God.

Not in the mind of the man or the heart of the man the day his elect are born

Because in the mind of God, it is a done deal. Gal 3:23

[joshualloyd]

JM seems to be wrong about almost every major eternal issue.

[chrisrealino]

You dont understand "we were in Christ before creation."

It simply means God decrees and determines that His decree will come to pass in your lifetime. It doesnt say you are a new creation before you are born. Your sinful and unsaved condition is changed instanlty the moment the Father draws you and the Holy Spirit regenerates you so that His faith will move you to come to Him in repentance thru Christ.
That is not your faith, it is God's faith that is given to you as a gift, that is why every believer who has come to Christ is a new creation.

[mccaboy]

Right on. Calvinism sounds grand but they leap frog over many verses

[abelnunez]

When it says "he predestined us in Christ" doesnt mean we were in Christ in the same context as Roman says it, it means that we were, wait for it, PREDESTINED to be in Christ at some point in the future. Roman is talking about being in Christ as in living in his ways, keeping his commanment, all this after repenting and trusting in the gospel. Being in Christ in this context means showing evidence that you have been safe by living like him thats why it says literally in the same verse in other translations "those who walk according to the spirit and not the flesh". but you are making correlation between verses just to make a point. You got one thing right though, is that yes, there was never condemnation for the chosen ones because God is determined to preserve them and he knows that every single person he chose to save will be safe. This is why jesus says anyone who come to him is sent by God the father (John 6:44) and also says that no one who was giving to him by his father was lost (John 10:28-29)

Conclusion: The chosen are predestined to salvation, they are not new creations when they are born, they still need to repent and belive, but they 100% will because God decided to do so and in doing so, he will preserve them until the end. God in his omnisciencia knew this andneverything else that there was to happen.

[logancastillo]

I can't speak for MacArthur, but I think what he is saying is that the elect never was in danger of going to hell or not being saved by Christ. Yes, in God's ordained time there came a specific moment that the believer chose to believe in Jesus and therefore was and is now saved. But in one sense they have always been in Christ because before the foundation of the world Jesus set them apart and knew they (the believers) were going to come to Him.