Catholic vs. Orthodox Papacy Debate (Jay Dyer vs. Erick Ybarra)

Catholic vs. Orthodox Papacy Debate (Jay Dyer vs. Erick Ybarra) Hosted by Michael Lofton #debate #catholicism #papacy #jaydyer

Michael starts out by discussing Canon 6 of Nicaea I and Roman Primacy with Erick. After an hour Jay Dyer joins the video for an impromptu debate with Erick on the papacy. The show then examines many issues including epistemology, the papal charisms, development of doctrine, etc.

00:00 Introduction
1:08 Canon 6 and the Papacy
9:06 Five Primacies of Rome
12:55 Immediate or Mediate Jurisdiction?
16:40 Jay Dyer Chat Questions
21:15 Formula of St. Hormisdas
23:40 Forgeries of Pope Symmachus
28:20 Motives of Credibility
31:52 Why Ecumenical Councils?
38:31 Final Thoughts on Canon 6
41:16 Nicea and Chalcedon
45:00 More Jay Dyer Questions
50:00 Jay Wants to Debate
51:12 Vatican II and Indifferentism
58:24 Multiple Primacies in Church
1:01:50 DEBATE BEGINS
1:07:24 Back to Canon 6
1:13:24 Orthodox Ecclesiology
1:17:30 Problems with Jay's Argument
1:26:40 Papal Infallibility
1:29:46 Icons and Doctrinal Development
1:33:04 Orthodox Internal Schism
1:37:36 Is Erick Hard-Headed?
1:45:18 Can Ecumenical Councils be Wrong?
1:52:00 Letter of Pope St. Agatho
1:59:50 Confession of St. Sophronius
2:03:15 History and Neutrality
2:06:02 Pope Hadrian II and Papal Supremacy
2:10:30 What Counts as Evidence?
2:19:06 Perfect Consistency
2:25:15 Vatican I Can't Tolerate Error
2:40:05 Theoretical Agreement (?)
2:47:14 Epistemology and the Holy Spirit
2:53:24 Personal Insults
2:54:20 Nous and Divine Energies
2:57:07 Enlightenment Through Institutions
2:59:28 Classical Foundationalism
3:02:51 Good Wishes and Conclusion
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[EncyclicalPrograms]

I want to give my experience going on Jays space last weekend. I am a Protestant, and I was arguing for our inclusion in the church of Christ. Immediately he accuses me of being someone else, and that really threw me off because I was already nervous. Then came an onslaught of questions which he never allowed me to answer in detail. Then when I asked him to provide info on a subject I didn’t know about, he muted me. I love the church, both Catholic and Orthodox, but I was very disappointed in his behavior because I did look up to him.

[dominicmorgan]

I was an Anglo catholic when I first watched this debate. Got interested in EO and Jay Dyer was a man I loved to listen too. This was the first time I could honestly say Jay lost a debate ( and arguably the only time I’ve seen so far). A few months later I decided to become a catholic. This was not because of this video, as my pride blinded me to the truth. I can only thank our lady for guiding me to the correct church when I asked her and for god giving me the grace to ask in the first place. In the 2021 Easter vigil I was received into the ordinariate of our lady of walsingham. Thanks for the video chaps. Still love jay dyers work, but I think Ybarra is by far the better historian. I know am a subscriber and a regular listener to R and T . Michael gives one of the most nuanced approaches to dealing with the current crises as opposed to Taylor Marshall and the like. God bless

[evolvingerinb]

I wish I would have listened to this, when it happened. Sorry to say, this sort of behavior is common online and as well in many parishes. Erick conducted himself well. I am truly so blessed to have found such good teachers as you and people like Erick. God bless you both.

[PeteV]

Man, after 20 years of online debate, Jay unfortunately reminds me of myself. This has been pretty eye opening to my own habits. Excellent job, Ybarra. Exposed to me personally how much growth I need.

[uptop]

Can we talk about the irony of Dyer talking about Ybarra being in a church that is bad for peoples’ souls while he’s acting in a completely uncharitable and disrespectful manner?

[jedidiahramiel]

I just watched this debate and I applaud Eric for his superb articulation and above all he showed sheer spiritual maturity in comparison to Jay Dyer.

[tonyjames]

I am raised Catholic and became Orthodox. I have been called back to Catholicism but had some confusion internally that I have been working through. I watched this to gain some perspective. Erick was a knowledgeable gentleman. Jay’s demeanor and temperament does not represent Orthodoxy well, and has turned me off to hearing any point he may have. Erick’s knowledge, and demeanor lends to a holy and peaceful perspective. You will know them by their fruits. Thank you Erick. Not by your knowledge, but by your example, I am coming closer to a decision . May God bless you and your ministry. Also discontinuing my subscription to Jays channel. This isn’t a tit for tat action, this is to teach a lesson that poor behavior will not be tolerated, and that there are honest seekers questioning the future of their souls who are looking toward men like him for answers, and are greeted with his poor behavior. Mr. Dyer, your behavior has repercussions. May Lord have Mercy.

[tomgjokaj]

If being arrogant and cocky was a requirement to be a Saint Jay would be one hell of a saint 🤣😂

[Theparishioner_]

What’s so frustrating about debating orthodoxy is that you can show them evidence from their own patriarch and their own saints to disprove their claims and all they have in rebuttal is “we don’t believe patriarchs are without error” it’s absurd

[ephesiansbrowne]

Jay was not prepared for this at all. He relied on little more than bullying and changed the subject entirely.

[LauraBeeDannon]

I'm here from a comment on Jay Dyer vs Nuck Duentes. Thank you, my dude, who left that comment. I am now a fan of Erick Ybarra.

[hoshuajofstetter]

Congrats to Erick for being able to make it through Jay acting like a child, I know I could never. The only thing anyone could gain from this is that Jay can’t get anything done with his antics. I pray he gets better and we can achieve something with him.

[Ev-mknl]

Thank you Erick. All my aspirations of considering Orthodoxy has vanished. Completely

[marks.]

It was an interesting conversation. Thanks to Michael, Erick, and Jay for making it happen.

[mememe]

I’m currently an ex-Protestant weighing the EOC and RCC and this discussion really helped a lot. Jay dyer was my main source of Orthodoxy and I feel Eric did very well against him! Though Jay does put out some interesting stuff about globalism and new world order stuff I think I’ll have to look elsewhere for orthodox theological talks. Maybe just convert to Catholicism already

[carlosalegria]

I thank God for this debate, at first I was feeling some doubts about my Catholic faith when it came to EO but after seeing this I'm very much secure in the Church.

[yeshuadvargas]

The Pope can be wrong, Orthodox Saints can be wrong, Orthodox Councils can be wrong, Ecumenical Councils can be wrong, but not Jay Dyer. Impossible.

[sessylusboy]

You are obviously sharper Mr. Ybarra than Jay that's why someone like him gets easily irritated and evidently disturbed in reasoning with you. Keep up the good work for the Catholic Faith. God Bless you so much.

[tomscrace]

Erick exhibits the patience of a saint in this debate.

[LPSCaitelyn]

I’m afraid that my pride has kept me away from the thought of the Catholic Church being right.. this is eye opening to me that I might’ve acted this way. I was a nondenominational Christian praying to God for wisdom and guidance because I want to be closer to God. I was considering orthodoxy but after this I need to research more..