We Have Christ But Still Need the Pope? - Fr. Peter Heers Responds to Bishop Barron

(Excerpted from "After 1,000 Years - An Orthodox Examination of Catholicism" by Fr. Peter Heers)

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[petrosstefanis]

Saint Chrysostom said 'the desire to rule is the mother of heresies'

[andys]

I'm a catechumen to becoming Orthodox and as a newbie to these topics, I appreciate how you break these issues down to easily understand. Videos like this only solidify my choice to covert from Protestantism to Orthodoxy ☦️

[sunriseschubert]

Jesus Christ is the ultimate authority.

[MaximusWolfe]

The Church fathers are “distant figures”? Wow, that’s quite telling. What makes the Church fathers so remarkable and potent is how germane they are regardless of year, era or issue. Any distance that exists has been wrought by ones chosen divergence from the mind of the Church. I find it difficult to believe that Barron has never thought deeply enough about the fathers to perceive that what makes them efficacious and important is their unflagging immediacy. Quite odd actually.

[shovelleator]

We converted from evangelicalism over 20 years ago to Orthodoxy here in Australia . Each year that passes and by Gods grace we move deeper into His church and realise just how foreign our former faith was to the truth. As a layman I am astounded the papacy is what Bishop Barron sees as the biggest separation. I see the west’s atonement theories, Christology (& hence ecclesiology ), original sin and Mariology driving an irrevocable wedge between us . The papacy is however what has driven the west to develop myriad little popes called protestants that is true but the rest of their theology is simply misguided. Terribly sad for those of our family and friends still caught up in it. Apologies for the verbosity and if I seem arrogant - I’m not really- just happy to have left it behind…

[costakeith]

It always seems that there's an innate atheism in the Latin arguments for the papacy, they defend the necessity of the papacy by denying the activity of the Holy Spirit in the world. It appears they believe God to be a mere logical proposition and not an active presence in this world.

[zzolm]

I am a recent convert to Orthodoxy from Catholicism. It took me nearly 3 years to do so. In all that time, I had never heard a robust refutation of Orthodoxy. Every Catholic admires the Orthodox Church. Catholic doctrine holds that Orthodox sacraments are valid, the priesthood is valid, etc. If there is Christ, the truth of his gospel and ultimately a path to Him, why join Rome? What further element of Faith does Rome offer? It all comes down to papal supremacy. In fact, the Catholic Church would change nothing in Orthodoxy if this supremacy is accepted. Just look at the Eastern Catholics, they venerate all the Orthodox saints, even ones who vehemently denounced the heterodoxy of the Catholic Church! Yet, this is acceptable and even celebrated because they accept the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome.

What does submission to this bishop get you? We are told its the great stability from the ultimate adjudicator on earth, chosen by Christ Himself. Meanwhile, many of the same advocates for Catholicism (especially the 'trads') will tell you not a moment later how the current pope (if not popes all the way to John XXIII) is a manifest heretic and to be resisted at all costs because of the heresy he introduces.

Again, what does communion with Rome provide? All it seems to provide is a way to abrogate tradition in light of 'new understandings' (they never call it an innovation, except that is precisely what it is). As Fr. Heers has pointed out, this is not a recent change from Vatican II or even Vatican I but has been a feature for 1, 000 years. We don't get any closer to Christ, as the Catholic Church states clearly that the Orthodox have valid sacraments. There is nothing in Orthodoxy that is objected to by Catholicism as heresy. Yet, Orthodoxy is asked to put all these elements that the Catholics 'so admire; in the hands of a single person, who can and has changed his mind on doctrine, discipline, and theology. For Catholics who think this is an exaggeration, tell me how the pope has dealt with the 1962 missal and old rite versions of sacraments. Tell me how you feel about the catechism published by the Catholic Church today.

[Peter-enbc]

Pope Francis has been one of the best evangelizers for Orthodoxy we could have asked for

[Alexandru]

I had the same complaint on a show called Reason&Theology and I asked If we Orthodox have Christ in the Eucharist, what do we lack?
And the answer from the author of the channel was the following:
“There are degrees of participation and communion with God. It is not an on/off switch. In the same way there are degrees of relationships with humans, so there is the same with God. The Orthodox have a great deal of communion with Christ but still lack something vital, namely, the universal structure he instituted and wills for them”.
So we lack the structure, the administrative part of Christ. This makes absolutely no sense to me. It’s like paperwork birocracy for God.
They delineate between Christ and The Church; for them Christ and His Body are not one, it’s like either the body is headless or the head is body less.

[anthony]

Anthony
1 second ago
In the 6th Century, Pope St. Gregory the Great wrote this

"I say it without the least hesitation, whoever calls himself the universal bishop, or desires this title, is, by his pride, the precursor of Antichrist, because he thus attempts to raise himself above the others. The error into which he falls springs from pride equal to that of Antichrist; for as that Wicked One wished to be regarded as exalted above other men, like a god, so likewise whoever would be called sole bishop exalteth himself above others.”

[nicholasgerhartz]

I came from Catholicism and listened ardently to this bishop. My biggest hurdle in converting to orthodoxy was the primacy of the pope. As one who was born and raised in Catholicism, I found that primal papal authority was taught from a young age. Brainwashing! During my whole parochial educational experience.
Thank you Father Peter! You know I love you!

[theroehrigsorthodoxchannel]

I agree to a certain extent the pope is good for two things.
1. He is outrageously comical.
2. He helps people leave the heretical Latin church to come to the Orthodox church.

[jajohnson]

So many Roman Catholics "admire" Orthodoxy, while at the same time taking cheap pot shots at how "ethnic" and "disorganized" we are. Dr. Scott Hahn even referred to Orthodox theology as "stagnant" in his book "Rome, Sweet Home" just a few lines after rehashing the usual stuff about admiring us. Bless his heart. How anyone could refer to a faith which has produced the likes of St. Porphyrios or St. John of Shanghai as stagnant obviously has no clue what he's talking about.

[vanessac.]

I have to be honest at times some of these theological arguments are way over my head. I truly thank God and it’s been a blessing to be simple minded. Without a doubt Gods grace granted me the ability to convert from Roman Catholic to Orthodoxy and understand this is truly The one, holy, catholic, and apostolic faith.
1:05 I just had to hear this bishop Barron say and I quote “I’m a follower of John Henry Newman” and automatically my spirit became uncomfortable. To me it’s that simple to discern that statement right there is a big 🚩 flag.
Lord have mercy, help us and keep us from be deceived in these times of great delusions. ☦️

[premodernprejudices]

“It seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit.” Exactly. What more need be said? Roman Catholicism’s chickens have, after many centuries of borrowed time, come home to roost.

[Zaleskee]

Excellent explanation!!, Thank You Fr. Heers

[milagroman]

The defense of the papacy is like a defensive attorney defending their client. They know their client is wrong, but they have a “legal” obligation and duty to defend him. Legalism rotted my mind and I’m still recovering from it to this day.

[Nina_Mo]

"A living voice of authority" VS the voice of the Holy Spirit in Orthodoxy. Is he even listening to himself?😀

[Publius-]

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

[eldermillennial]

So, the gist and subtext of Barton’s argument in light of the PLAIN as day misbehavior of the current pontiff this past decade, is “it’s better to have all the gifts, (even if we NEVER exercise them correctly anymore), then to have most (but not all) of the gifts, even if exercised almost perfectly)”.
Every day this pope in particular proves himself NOT to be any sort of instrument in Christ’s hand, yet WE are ‘flawed’ for not wanting anything to do with him anymore than God does?