Gun Violence in America: A Conversation with Graeme Wood (Episode #283)

In this episode of the podcast, Sam Harris speaks with Graeme Wood about the problem of gun violence in the aftermath of the mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas.

Graeme Wood is a national correspondent for The Atlantic. He has written for The New Yorker, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and many other publications. He was the 2014–2015 Edward R. Murrow Press Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, and he teaches in the political science department at Yale University. He is the author of The Way of the Strangers: Encounters with the Islamic State.

Twitter: @gcaw

Released: May 30, 2022

[austingoyne]

Convenience matters. Even if the bad guy “could get a gun if he really wants to”, that doesn’t mean he will. Putting up roadblocks and speed bumps will help.

[mike]

Asian people live in the USA as well, which means they have the exact same access to firearms, and yet their homicide rates are comparable to countries like Japan. Why is that?

[gitarheroqaz]

Ammo prices fluctuate so wildly that its not uncommon for people to stock up thousands of rounds during cheap periods to make it through 3-5 years of quadruple/quintuple prices. This does make sense for those that shoot regularly.

[carlograziano]

It was great to hear Sam’s humanness. So many people joke that he’s always so calm, measured and composed, he may be along the psychopath spectrum. He clearly is not. He’s just very professional.

[AndyfromWrexham]

I disagree with Graham's point that the guy who sold the Uvalde shooter his gun should be made to feel worse and we should all know his name. I'm not into punishing people for the crime of being unable to predict the future.

[DennisMoore]

I know it's probably unpopular but Sam is right. The problem of gun violence is not the same problem as mass casualty massacres or suicides with a firearm. All are problems that need solutions but each problem needs its own solutions. There's no single answer for all of it.

[jongriffin]

Oppressive - I feel that and I’m living in the UK.
The gun tragedies that America continually has to deal with, makes it a third world country regardless of its many technical advances or progressive ideals. Fundamentally, if your children have to be trained to flee from a shooter, or your schools need armed guards, there is a degree of barbarism in your culture that makes it hard to differentiate between Iran or America. From the European perspective, the U.S. has a pop culture form of psychosis that glorifies violence and vengeance in no less a toxic way than any Jihadist. It is simply a tenet of American society that endorses a certain type of violence from birth, there is a disregard of basic humanity while promoting a visceral form of materialism, power and narcissism.
This is a very potent mix, such that one would live in an environment that offers potentially every possible opportunity to realise dreams, and simultaneously the most vacuous experience if you fail to make your mark or are an outsider subjected to continual abuse.
Despite having the profile of a free and democratic culture, it is intuitively known that Americas leaders are deeply corrupt and regard the honour of high office more an opportunity to generate personal wealth than to honour the constitution or work to create unity. In this respect it is a highly competitive arena where losing is not an option, there is simply no consolation for failure in a system that ultimately does not value the individual in any real meaningful way.
The solution - noone has one, as long as a system is corrupt and as long as there is a justifiable reason for the second amendment, which there is, and as long as home invasions or carjackings are as high stakes as they are, U.S. Citizens are right to want to possess weapons.
This is, or should be, a non-partisan issue, but of course it won’t be - rather it is an opportunity to accuse political opponents of murder and supremacy.
From my perspective America simply is the advanced version of an African country, it is the bridge from grass hut to skyscraper but with a zealous, superstitious, idealistic tribalism, no different to an Ivory Coast warlord.

[crazierthan-u]

With regard to media coverage of school shootings, here's what forensic psychiatrist Park Dietz said in a 2009 BBC interview; “We’ve had 20 years of mass murders throughout which I have repeatedly told CNN and our other media, if you don’t want to propagate more mass murders, don’t start the story with sirens blaring. Don’t have photographs of the killer. Don’t make this 24/7 coverage. Do everything you can not to make the body count the lead story, not to make the killer some kind of anti-hero. Do localize the story to the affected community and make it as boring as possible in every other market. Because every time we have intense saturation coverage of a mass murder, we expect to see one or two more within a week.” And he is but one of many in his field who've been saying this.

Following the 2014 Seattle Pacific University shooting, Dietz complained in another interview that the media had completely ignored these warnings: “I have been on CNN at least three times saying, ‘If you keep this up, we’re going to have another one within two weeks, ’” he said. “And I’ve been right all three times.”

If the news media are finally beginning to heed the advice  of Dietz and other threat-assessment experts, they've been mighty slow coming around.

[BloggerMusicMan]

It's not usual to hear Sam Harris get so emotional. I get it. This story REALLY hit a lot of people in their core.

[ASM]

I’d love to see Sam do a podcast on the crisis that’s killing massive numbers of people.

[mbarker_lng]

A note about running vs. shelter in place. SiP is a bad idea (IMHO) for the reasons given here, but everyone running simultaneously creates a new problem. Its a known issue about human psychology that when we flee in terror, we head to the last known entrance/exit. This was the situation of The Station nightclub fire where 100 people died trying to funnel through the entrance while several other exits were readily available. This could create a scenario where children are jam packed at a doorway creating a 'cannot miss' scenario for a shooter. Its why fire drills (including adult ones if you work Government buildings) are carried out in an orderly fashion.

[fredrik]

When people can’t cope with emotions internally, they inevitably project this as anger outwards. When a person lacks the ability to introspect, this anger becomes boundless.

[Randylayhe]

The Japanese termed it "Yukiko Syndrome" we know medias constant bombardment of tragedy can and does motivate the most vulnerable. Nearly EVERY mass murderer using social media before and during the act, afterwards the "news media" picks it up and perpetuates the story.

[sigmarecovery]

I was a police officer for ten years. I liken this problem with gun violence in this country to a drug addiction, like any addiction, until the pain of things staying the same exceeds the pleasure, the problem will not change. The thing that never seems to be talked about is how frequently it is the combination of alcohol and a gun that creates the disaster. The vast majority of crimes and incidents I investigated that involved a firearm, alcohol use was a factor. While virtually every state has laws on the book that prohibit the possession of a firearm while under the influence, within my own state, unless you were a convicted felon, an arrest made by a municipal officer for possessing a firearm while intoxicated while be disposed of through city court. Maximum penalty? 6 months in jail and a $500.00 fine. Usual consequence? Fine, court costs, and one year of unsupervised probation and yes, they will get their gun back.

[jgreen]

@19:00

Only in America can 220 mass shootings in 153 days, and 27 school shootings in 20 weeks be dismissed as not really a big deal

[bcarrancho]

As a non-american, this was the weirdest conversation to listen to. The logic around guns in America is crippling.

[endercetiner]

Listening from Europe, with none I know owner of a gun, except for a friend in a shooting club with small air pistol, many statements in this conversation are so alien to me. And hearing Sam Harris, who is supposed to be one of the big thinkers of the time, making such statements like "a world without guns is the one where the strong wins " etc is so shocking (how come can he be so biased with an American way of living). It feels like listening to some Mayan guys discussing about how "responsible use of human sacrifice" is normal and necessary rtc.
I can't continue listening to a conversation based on such biased and nonsense arguments.

[gunboatsandhos]

American society has become so degenerate, the violence merely a symptom. we are basically a wealthy south africa at this point. the lack of basic morality and values never seems to be addressed.

[ianwang]

From someone from Australia with universal healthcare and generally no guns in the community, I really feel sorry for the Americans who can't see the alternatives - similar to the citizens in China who can't see the point of having democracy. Saddly even Sam Harris is trapped in this narrative, ignoring the basic human rights - safe and healthy living.

[JL-olzg]

Very little focus on why it's only America, the single best clue on how to solve this issue. If Sam's fear of eliminating guns leaving people unsafe in the face of a larger perpetrator is true, why are countries with stricter gun laws safer across the board? I don't really care about guns either way, but at the very least challenge your own beliefs on the matter, the real answer could just simply be American culture and not the number of guns, but reviewing the data should answer this....