Who are the elect in Romans 9? with @Soteriology101

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#Soteriology #Apologetics

[jonboy]

Thank u guys for giving us a different perspective on romans 9

[Zatoichi]

Watch: Election and salvation are NOT synonyms - Dr. Michael S. Heiser

[nealwright]

I spent years looking at Ephesians 1 trying to understand why Paul changed from We/Us to You. I finally realized that Paul was referring to the Jews in the verses 2-12 and that he "included" the Ephesians in verse 13. It's the same in Romans! Just because the book says Romans doesn't mean Paul isn't writing to Jews. Only the Jews were "once under the law". Only the Jews would understand the phrase "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ", because Paul had spent the first seven chapters speaking of the judgement under the law. This blows the foundation completely out from under Calvinism!!

[RandomBoxingGuy]

God makes it clear, through MANY verses, that we have a choice. He also makes it clear, that He knows which side you will choose. IMO… John McArthur said it best “Some things, we just won’t get to know this side of heaven”.

[UnclePengy]

I think I've come to the same conclusion about election to salvation - i.e., Arminianism vs. Calvinism - that you have. But I'd not heard anyone else express it before. The idea that both election and free will are true, it's just depends on the point of view of the verses, the point of view of the agents involved. Some passages talk about God's election, because He is outside of time, sees all things from the beginning and knows those who will accept His grace. But we are stuck inside of time, and from our perspective we can still choose and have free will. It's not that God is up there saying, "this one is saved, that one is damned" and making our minds up for us; it's that He can see at the end of time which ones made that choice and which ones didn't. (Am I making sense?)

[dawn]

Frank, Leihton Flowers wanted to respond to your questions. I give him "A+" for grace and patience!
Frank, let him speak already! 😊

[SpielbergMichael]

I love Leighton Flowers and his channel, Soteriology 101.
I also strongly recommend the Beyond The Fundamentals. They’re both amazing.

[ricksonora]

False dichotomy: Elect refers either to Israel OR to those whom God saves.

Look at Colossians 1:15 and 18, where firstborn over and firstborn from have radically different meanings. There’s no reason that “elect” has to refer to the same group and in the same sense in both cases.

The ignored third option is that elect refers to God’s chosen nation in a national sense and to His chosen children in a salvific sense. This option does not do injustice to the contexts.

[alphamegaradio]

Boom Boom Boom. Thank you, sir. Much needed clarity on election, largely due to this particular passage. After this breakdown, it all begins to square-up, doctrine-wise. Amazing how God set that up? 🙂

[kingmatrix]

It goes beyond Israel because Ephesians 1 in that chapter talks solely about predestination and election so obviously Romans 9 is based off of the same predestination and election notion. Jeremiah 1:5 i knew you before the womb snd chose you. Judas Iscariot was chosen for judgement no free will there! Pharaoh’s heart was hardened so no free will there! It amazes how arminianist love to cling to there free will notion when scriptures are clear that human will or efforts cannot replace Jesus’s grace! Free will is another/different gospel.

[nobody]

It does not matter whether the election is for individuals or the nation of Isreal. The election is by God's will, not by man's will.

[ManoloVintage]

When Paul talks about " In order that Gods plan of election might stand", hes talking about God saving those who would love Him. God foreknew that there would be some who would love and obey Him, so He intends to save those ones. Just like His grace held aside 7, 000 who loved and obeyed Him. God didn't toss away an entire race of people or get rid of His promise because the majority rejected Him. Gods promise still stamds for those who love Him and believe in His son. Hebrews 11.

Hebrews 9.
Paul is specifically talking about faith and the Jews who have faith in Christ. They are the elect. The elect was never about receiving the promise because of flesh and blood. It was always about those with faith receiving the promise.
Paul wishes he was cursed and cut off from Christ instead of his brothers. Everything began with them and they should have kept faith. But they didnt, so they are no longer children of the promise.
Only those Jews with faith are Abrahams offspring and children of the promise. These are the elect, saved by their love, obedience, and faith in God.

This phrase "elect" doesnt make them more special of a people than other peoples and nationalities. It only means that they were saved through faith. They love and obey God and therefore are saved because of their faith in Christ. This is a small group out of an entire nation of Jews.

[TAdler-expx]

Believers! ❤ From the heart, not one fools Him!

[newcreation]

Romans 8:12-14: "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." The warning in verse 13 is to "brethren".

[macumus]

At what point in the road to Damascus conversion of Paul did he act according to his own personal will to be a Christian. It was irresistible.

[tolife]

When you don't know the Gospel, you get this debate over competing pagan views superimposed on the Bible.

[brucedavenport]

Where is the word "nation" in the Scriptures he quoted. Nowhere. Inserted by Turek to support his narrative!

[willscott]

This is a doctrine that I have had a hard time reconciling for a long time.

[asureguidetolove]

Frank references the first verses of chapter nine and a verse over in chapter eleven to substantiate his belief that Paul is describing the election of the nation of Israel; but did he actually read what Paul says? Paul does indeed begin with national Israel, but he says, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" 9:6. Paul is turning our attention to the fact that not every ethnic Jew is saved. The context here CLEARLY concerns the question of why many INDIVIDUALS among ethnic jews reject Christ, and does not concern why God chose the ethnic Jews rather than other nations. PLEASE STOP AND THINK FOR A MOMENT. Do you really think that what is concerning Paul in verses one through three is the question of why God chose Israel rather than other nations? Is that REALLY why you think Paul is so worked up in these opening verses? Certainly, it is not that. Paul is worked up because many INDIVIDUALS among ethnic Jews are rejecting Jesus. Frank's take on the context is completely ignoring what Paul is saying here. Please stop and read what Paul is saying rather than imposing a contrived false context on the passage.

[jeffphelps]

God may know who is going to be saved. We don't. Share the gospel