MANJARO has a BIG PROBLEM

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#manjaro #linux

00:00 Intro
00:41 Sponsor: Monitor and secure your internet connection with Safing
01:45 How Manjaro works
03:39 Security problems
05:20 Packaging non-stable changes without talking with upstream
07:30 AUR integration and issues
09:55 Bad image, and bad decisions
12:43 What's the issue?
14:46 Sponsor: Get a device that's fully Linux compatible with Tuxedo
15:53 Support the channel

The first problem, which might seem small, is in how the company handles very basic stuff, like security certificates.

Manjaro has let their certificates expire 4 times now. It might seem like a very small issue, but it's extremely basic. Renewing certificates is extremely easy, and can be automated. Manjaro's inability to anticipate this or automate it isn't a good sign in terms of how seriously they take their security.

Manjaro also has the habit of trying to release things that aren't ready, without checking with the upstream devs first. One example is with the Asahi Linux project, where Manjaro decided that having Apple Silicon support early would be cool, and shipped a broken kernel.

This is what led to the "don't ship it" manifesto from various developers, and probably what led the Bottles developer to also ask distros to not repackage their software without talking to them first.

Another problem that arose was the use of the AUR in Manjaro. Except the AUR doesn't really work well on Manjaro. Because the AUR assumes you're using the latest Arch software, with the latest versions Arch releases. Which Manjaro doesn't, because they hold back packages for testing. Which means that installing stuff from the AUR can seriously break your Manjaro system if you're not careful.

Manjaro's AUR helper had a bug in it, that sent thousands of requests to the AUR's servers for each Manjaro user. This resulted in an involuntary DDOS attack, short for distributed denial of service

And then there are a few other issues. The project lead wanted to buy a new laptop using Manjaro funds, for about 2000€. The treasurer refused the expense, because it went against Manjaro's policy.

This led to an argument with the project lead, and surfaced other expenses that hadn't been discussed according to Manjaro's Policy, and led the treasurer to leave the company, leaving the project lead in full control of all the community funds.

Then Manjaro announced that they would be shipping SoftMaker office by default instead of LibreOffice. Replacing an open source component with a proprietary one isn't really something you'd expect from a Linux distribution.

Manjaro has also often been accused of not contributing to upstream, especially on the mobile front. Someone involved in the Pine64 community points out that the fact that most mobile Pine64 projects are starting to falter is due to the fact that only Manjaro is a supported distribution for the Pinephone, where before there were a myriad of community editions, and that Manjaro doesn't really contribute to supporting the hardware.

[shariarrahman]

As a distro Manjaro has worked very well for me. But the problems you have mentioned are definitely things that need to be addressed. I hope Manjaro devs see this and pay attention to it.

[OteimPrincewill]

I used Manjaro for like 2 days and when I went to the forum to ask for help. All I got was condescending remarks like "go and use Windows", "do your research". I'm someone who has dual booted Debian for nearly 8 years so I just went back to Linux mint. It was one of the most unhelpful places I've ever been

[xkosmusx]

I really hope they get their act together. I've been using Manjaro for several years now and I don't want to switch.

[fleurcode]

"Manjaro has a problem" Literally, when has it not had a problem?

[FengLengshun]

As someone who has been testing and using Manjaro for the last 3 months, you nailed it.

I understand the management and image problems, but as someone who is actually using the distro, it feels such a dissonance between how people talk about Manjaro and how for the most part... Manjaro is fine. As a distro you use, if you aren't messing around too much, it's fine. Heck, probably the closest you get to "Arch for people who doesn't want Arch."

No, the problem is that Manjaro's organization and management. Personally, I choose Manjaro because I _don't want to manage my system_ . I just want it to just work and I don't want to have to think about it. But I can't have that confidence if Manjaro as an organization keep having dumb issues.


As of right now, I'll keep it on my laptop because there's no point in reinstalling if it isn't broken, but if it IS broken, then I'll just use something Ubuntu-based, which has the second most access to apps natively after Arch-based, and supplement everything else with distrobox. I just want access to AUR and not deal with all the problems Arch has recently, and so far on my kubuntu-focus PC, this combo has been working well so I'm keeping a close eye on my Manjaro install right now.

[Beryesa.]

The fact that installing today's sponsor may break manjaro hahah 😅😂

[TukozAki]

Long time Arch Linux user here; this really adds to my understanding of the general "fatigue" among Arch contributors towards Manjaro.

[lorduggae]

When it comes to the AUR it's a "use at own risk" issue. Even Arch says use the AUR at your own risk.

[pillmuncher]

Fun Fact: The German GmbH is the equivalent to the Ltd. in the English speaking world.

[dylon]

also another thing manjaro has messed up on recently is that the developer of the matray application (tray icon that gives notifications when a new manjaro update has released and links to the forum post for the update news) decided he no longer wanted to be a part of manjaro and asked the manjaro developers to host the project if he would still do maintenance on it. all he received were slow responses arguing over it taking up too bandwidth (even though he assured them it takes up barely any bandwidth) and arguing over no one knowing how to maintain it even though the dev just stated he would maintain it. he never got an answer until another community member volunteered to host it

[GarrisIiari]

I'm so conflicted. As a Manjaro user for the last 4-5 years, it has been the most stable, trouble-free experience I've had on Linux in over a decade. For the intermediate Linux user, it's a terrific choice. However, the issues you bring up are real and worthy of thought. I've tried Fedora on a spare laptop recently and, sadly, I have found it is not without its issues and complications. Perhaps I will try out Endeavour OS although, after customizing it, I will likely have rebuilt much of a Manjaro setup!

[CotyTernes]

I've been using Manjaro as my main OS for over a year, and on a bunch of devices for a few years. AUR hasn't broken anything for me, but I acknowledge that it could due to the reasons you said. Mostly what I've had with AUR is just application shortcuts not being created.
I really hope their team sees this video and addresses everything.

[gigalodon]

Beginners who want to use the AUR should rather install EndeavourOS

[talkysassis]

Manjaro is a great distro to: Have a big base repo with every runtime tool, make devs release self contained packages as flatpaks or tars and keep the AUR as a side tool.

[eruno_]

I think Manjaro was one of the few OS I had most problems with

[eckee]

I used Manjaro as a brand new Linux user and it was my favourite Linux distro. I have tried Ubuntu, Pop OS, Fedora, Mint but none of them were even close. Gnome is my taste and it ran perfectly smoothly on my 12 year old laptop. It was highly responsive, I could find help in the forums easily and quickly. I unironically recommend Manjaro for brand new Linux users.

Soon I'll ricing pure Arch with a window manager. Or I'll just use Manjaro as prepackaged.

[skelebro]

Nowadays EndeavourOS is really becoming the new Manjaro. Easy to install, transparent to its users and works almost like vanilla Arch without breaking too much. They even helped with the recent GRUB UEFI issue. But that aside let's see what the future of Manjaro holds.

[CMDRSweeper]

I may be narrowminded, but if I see a distro or some complex piece of software have a SSL certificate expiration, I shy away from it, especially if they are using LetsEncrypt.
Nothing against LetsEncrypt when I say this, but this is a simple task, a task that is very simple and easy to take care of, and you already have the infrastructure to do such automatically.
For a distro you are compiling code, quite often automatically, and I suspect on a cron job as well.
Now if you screwed up the simple certificate... What else have you screwed up under the hood? And that is why I shy away from it.

[cfusername]

I’m a satisfied Manjaro user for years. Never had any real technical issues and I use a lot of AUR packages (some I modify or make own packages). That being said, I agree that the priorities of the creators are sometimes weird.

[exoticlol]

Yo, big supporter. You made me switch to Linux. Thanks for showing me this cool world!