An Orthodox Deconstruction of Reformed Theology with Jay Dyer

#Logos #LogosRising #Christianity
In this stream I am joined by the man, the myth, the legend Jay Dyer to deconstruct Reformed Protestant Theology from an Eastern Orthodox paradigm and perspective. Make sure to check it out and let me know what you think.
God bless 🙏

Thank you 🙏

[AP-boif]

My refutation against Protestantism is very simple. Jesus never said my children wait 1600 years for the printing press to be invented so you can interpret Christianity your own way.

[whitemakesright]

I find that a devastating argument against most Protestant beliefs is "where does it say that in the Bible?" They claim to believe in Sola Scriptura, but in practice they believe all kinds of things on the basis of their own traditions.

[EvanRoo]

Church of Eternal Gains. Looking good brother God bless you.

[thwooop]

Jay should write a book just refuting reformed theology, he has so much knowledge on the topic and it would be the best thing considering he actually debates the topic and understands people's arguments against it

[TheDonovanMcCormick]

Glad to see you two boys together again. We lost so much in the reforms of the 16th and subsequent centuries that we, in the West, aren’t even aware of our history nor our traditions. Luckily for us and later generations we have the internet now, and honest and curious folks are coming to these conclusions and looking into high church traditions. I think we are seeing and will continue to see a movement back to the roots of Christianity from this point onward. The gates of hell will not prevail against it. It’s on a comeback after all this liberalism that has infected the modern church in the West. Take care brothers, Glory to God and may the Sprit of Truth bless and keep you both, Amen.

[Dscrd-]

My parents didn’t raise me with religion so when I was crawling out from my teenage atheist era the only real knowledge of God I had was my own personal TAG-ish understanding. For many years I studied Christianity, knowing this was it, but everything felt wrong. Couldn’t even bring myself to read The Bible because it was so obvious I was reading my own meaning into it. Wanted to go to church but same problem, I could just choose. Even today I haven’t gone all in yet.
DPH and Jay’s TAG overviews were the first time I heard someone properly explain what I’d been thinking about when I came to know God exists, after revisiting this video many times and looking at its references you asked all the right questions and they were answered so well, it was the first time I was finally able to distinguish between the muddled protestant understanding of Christianity that I first came to know VS a view of Christianity that actually makes sense holistically and doesn’t leave room for flowery innovations. I’ve held so many worldviews throughout my short life but was always wary of them, and eventually disappointed. I truly believe this is the end of the line for me and my era of searching is over, never before have I felt more certain about something, and I am so grateful to you and others for presenting your studies in the form of rigorous yet accessible lectures ^_^ ♥

[garinold]

I think if Jay does more debates with evangelicals, the reformed, etc, it would be great. I think he's plateaued with catholics. He could get a lot of debates with protestants that would all be awesome.

[NickOeffinger]

If you guys enjoyed this video I would highly recommend Fr. Josiah Trenham’s book Rock and Sand (an orthodox appraisal of the Protestant reformation)

You can find it on audiobook as well 👍

[KaylaReynoldsRaven]

Wowwww! Growing up in a Baptist/Nondenominational environment, I never understood how they didn't seem to think about how the books of the new testament weren't even around for a while, nor did I ever hear any info about this. I literally have said well what happened to all the people before the New Testament lol?! Between this, and some other things that didn't make sense, it just made me think they were ignorant; this had a lot to do with why I turned away from Christianity!

I felt they were very ignorant about things and had no answers; I wish I had known of Orthodoxy back then! Learning about Orthodoxy now at 37 yrs old, I keep coming across answers to ponderings I naturally had as a kid and as an adult, and ways of thinking I naturally had that did not align with what I was being told as a kid about Christianity. It's like I've always been Orthodox, I just never knew it existed 😂 and instead thought Baptists pretty much represented most denominations (except Catholicism which I was taught was blasphemous and not Christian), and to me a lot of teachings seemed kinda lacking so I became atheist and then a witch haha!!

I never went to a church that
taught about the origins of the canons of the new testament being a part of an Orthodox church that was the original church; and although I know at some point in college I learned a bit about the reformation, I didn't even put together that Baptist couldn't have been the original teachings as it didn't even show up until the 16th ish century. It wasn't until learning about Orthodoxy and how it has remained the only church who has unaltered teachings directly linked to the first Apostles who were actually around Jesus that a light bulb went off and I thought wow, duh, how did I never look in to earlier Christianity or realizeit could have changed hundreds of years later? Instead I had begun looking into Hindu and other ancient pagan beliefs like sumerian religion, Asatru, etc.

I don't recall anything really being said about the history, it was just a couple of random versus being taught with the preacher rambling on about what his perceived interpretation about it was for a sermon, and of course encouragement to read the Bible.

I guess we learned of course about what happened in history according to stories in the Bible, but nothing outside of that or how it related to everything else going on historically or about the schism of 1054 or about the reformation hundreds of years later. I'd learned a bit about Constantinople from my own studies about history, but I never heard about him in church and never thought about how when I was learning about him that the Christianity he made legal wasn't Baptist or something similar; I'm alittle dumbfounded now how I never put together that it must have been a different branch of Christianity, and came upon the original one of Orthodoxy. How wasn't I connecting dots lol, wow, sometimes I see such gaps in my knowledge it reminds me just how little I know, which I know that, but sometimes I feel particularly ignorant 😂.

I've definitely never been taught about the Niacene Creed and the councils! I'm sure my preachers had to have known, maybe it was taught elsewhere and I just wasn't being exposed? Clearly they believe they have Christianity right so perhaps they thought it pointless to teach history dating back to Orthodoxy and talking about it.

Anyhow lol, this was a rant (pardon my itense ADHD impulsive rambling, I even deleted some shit lol), but I'm moving through some intense shifts and upgrades! Thanks for the information, as always!

[frandixon]

A calm and clear unpacking of reactive Reformed theology... Much needed and will have long range impact...

[MotherPugger]

Awesome video and love to see the growth of dph even in the two years since this has been posted. It’s a reminder to me to not waste my days!

[fansofst.maximustheconfess]

THE DYER! Always a thoroughly great experience...

[paulgundrum]

Awesome Apologetics, explained things very simply considering how deep it can be at times. Thank You!

[davidgravy]

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I've been a fan of this podcast for a while now, and from it I have learned many helpful things. Thank you, David Patrick, for all of your hard work. As a believer, who has come into the faith through small communities of other believers, attracting others to the faith by living a life which exhibits the love of Christ, bringing creatures like me into Christ's body, through prayer, worship, and study of the Holy Scriptures, and who sees no need for any denominational identity within the body, I find this conversation....interesting. Jay presents information that further attracts me to the orthodox church, and also causes me to consider how there may be roots, unbeknownst to me, to my own theological understanding. I don't identify as a protestant or a reformist, but it looks like I do have some things in common with such people. I've read as much John Calvin as I have John Damascus, which is none, and this is the first time I've heard of a "sola", but I tend to think the Holy Spirit and the Bible are all one really needs to find a relationship with the living God. I don't, however, suppose that anyone has this experience in a vacuum, completely separated from other believers, nor is my education and growth separable from the minds and testimonies of many others, from various walks of life.

Maybe I'm getting something wrong, but it sounds like Jay is suggesting no one can really be in the body of Christ unless one is receiving Holy Communion at an orthodox church, which is a bit audacious to me. I think y'all respect the spiritual reality of the eucharist much better than most of the protestants I've met, which is laudable, but the body and blood of Christ I've partaken of seemed to satiate me just fine. Is there a certain institution one must be a part of, to be a Christian? Maybe, but if so, I'm surprised, because while I do believe you two are brothers, I also believe the ones I know outside of orthodox churches, are brothers. I'm a changed man, and you won't convince me anyone apart from Jesus made that possible. Sola fide? Sola scriptura? As in all you need is faith and a Bible? Does anyone actually believe that? How would one whose heart cries out for God, and is moved enough by God's Word to begin thirsting for Him instead of worldly things that do not satisfy, avoid the influence of the Holy Spirit? Does He not love us all enough to find us wherever we earnestly seek Him? If we believe Jesus is Lord, and our belief is evidenced by the lives we live as we walk with Him, but we are attending a "reformist" church or whatever, does that mean we don't really love Jesus but have deceived ourselves?

I have, by the way, a book by Thomas Hopko, on the doctrine and scripture of the orthodox faith. Says here "if we open ourselves to divine grace and purify ourselves from all evils, then it is certain that we will be able to interpret the scriptures properly and come into a living communion with the true and living God who has revealed Himself and continues to reveal Himself to those who love Him." I agree, but I don't think you have to go to orthodox liturgies, or even read the writings of the early fathers, to love Jesus and be purified of evils. That's not to say I think you shouldn't, in fact I am positively inspired to do both, but I take issue with the rigidity I'm picking up on. It's like the icon thing. I don't think it's idolotry, but if Jesus Christ Himself is an icon, I'm pretty sure He's the only icon anyone really needs, to worship the Lord in spirit and truth.

I don't mean to strawman, so sorry if I'm not getting it. All I know is a man who loves Jesus is a man after my own heart, and I guess if my doctrine is false somehow, God will eventually help me see how, because I pray every day He will show me where I fall short of obedience to Him, and His love has already moved mountains with me.

"Blessed are the those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God."

Everywhere you go, may peace be with you. If we don't meet before then, I look forward to the day we meet in Zion.

[Thisguy]

As an ortho inquirer coming from a protestant backround this was great! Jay Dyre an absolute chad.

[homeboyjethro]

Epic stream. Great discussion wit JDzey man.

[JLeppert]

What Protestants don't realize they are saying is that Timothy and Titus, after Paul died, went full apostate. My question is if Paul is writing to Timothy and Titus and he is so terrible at communicating the gospel to them why are his letters to them important to us? If the churches
at Ephesus, Galatia, Philippi, Colossi, and Thessaloniki all went apostate after he died why do WE care about what he told them? He obviously wasn't good at communicating it.

[boastonlyinthecross]

I keep revisiting this PURE JEWEL of an interview!! Wow! Wow! Wow! I just keep getting PUMPED over and over again each time I rewatch this!!!

[Itasca]

Thank you for reposting this. It is EXTREMELY helpful!!!

[iwads]

Jay Dyer vs. James White
Please make this happen!!!