Which Dovetail Method is Best? Pins or Tails First?

In this video Rob's answers the age old question,"Which is best, pins or tails first method to hand cut dovetails?"
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[GM-gcgg]

I was trained to cut tails first more than 30 years ago and cut dovetails that way for years. Then, about 20 years ago, I met Frank Klausz at a woodworking show and he showed me the advantage of cutting pins first. He cut the joint with only a backsaw, a chisel and a marking gauge, with nothing to mark angles. He did it by eye. So, I switched and have never gone back. The primary advantage of the pins-first method is that the pin board is resting on the tail board when marking the tails and the weight of the pin board helps hold it in the proper position during the marking process. No tape wall necessary, either. A couple of years ago, I had a minor comment war with another YouTube creator (whose name will go unmentioned) because he was hawking a gadget that held the parts together during the tails-first marking process. My position is that if you need a single-purpose gadget to cut tails first then it can't possibly be the better method. Your offset method requires not one, but two such single-purpose gadgets. Our woodworking forebears didn't have these things and would have scoffed at us for using them. They got good at cutting dovetails by doing it over and over again. My suggestion, for those who really want to get good at cutting dovetails, is to rip some drawer box stock down to 4" wide and cut the joint. Then, the next day, cut off the pins and tails and cut the joint again in the same boards. And then do it again every day for a month. By the end of that month you will be cutting dovetails better and faster than when you started. Guaranteed. And no gadgets required. Edit to add: In my view, there's only one reason to cut tails first: you can clamp two tail boards together and cut them at the same time.

[mathewcampbell]

I know this will be sacrilegious, but I do love my Incra LS Positioner! I do love watching Rob cut by hand, though, so I cut vicariously.

[bobhargesheimer]

As a hobbyist I don't get as much practice on any joint as I need. I can vouch that the offset method and the acquisition of Rob's saws has upped my game significantly. Still not and never will be as good as Rob, but it has cut my tuning up the dovetails by 80-90%. Less tuning and a much better looking joint overall. Thanks for the help Rob.

[Rowan-qshs]

Excellent overview of the three techniques! Very helpful.

[airnashville]

I do like the offset method. It's very clever.

[JohanLarssonKiruna]

I've never done pins first, but looking at it now, I see that it's easy to see the gauge line on the tail board, and line up the inside of the pin board to it in a precise way. I've seen and used methods involving making a support with layers of tape, or planing a very shallow rabbet to make it easy to get this absolutely right making tails first. So pins first can be faster. And you don't have to be very exact cutting the boards, they can vary in length a little, as you will plane them flush later. For that to work cutting tails first you will definitely need that baseline support. (I'm writing this at the beginning of the video, so please forgive me if all this is mentioned later on... I might have gotten something wrong also I guess! 🙂) One thing I'm quite sure of that will be mentioned, is that cutting tails first makes for no tear-out by the saw on the front of the boards. Which is why I always have done tails first.

[jeffbourne]

Superb comprehensive video demonstrating 3 methods for cutting precise dovetails. Wonderful explanations detailing the merits of each method and supported by great close up shots to highlight important cuts.
As always, the Cosman Team provide such interesting and highly informative woodwork content. We are all most appreciative of everything you do to share such knowledge and promote wood craftsmanship. Seasons Greetings to the whole TEAM!!

[marcbarash]

Thanks Rob, a great explaination and teaching video.

[chris-C]

I just received my RC dovetail saw, and I'm shocked at how much better it is than my old one (from a different brand). At first, I thought it was just marketing hype, but now my tails and pins fit together perfectly. Thank you Rob! Your methods have enabled me to achieve things I never thought I could. Merry Christmas!

[wpappas]

Thanks, informative video, clearly the offset seems easier.

[PaulHughes-sh]

Offset seems a proper faff, I'll sick to old school tails first, thanks for your videos rob I always watch 👍

[harleywood]

Without your instruction and videos I would have bought a porter cable jig and cut dovetails with a router. It’s definitely satisfying cutting the DT’s by hand. Hey look at that, even I can do it.

[Dave-bnbn]

Charles H Hayward wrote years ago about the unique method of sawing tails and pins at the same time, using a shop built offset gauge.

[daleties]

Thanks Rob. It always makes my day to see a new RC video has dropped.

[steveh]

Guess using a pounce bag is a precursor, where you apply the offset by sawing to just kiss the resulting chalk lines on the waste side

[murphymmc]

When I learned and started doing dovetails, it was the tails first. I tried doing the pins first and went back to tails first. The I watched your offset method and never looked back. I made my own kerf knife and marking template/guide because I could. The offset method was the best thing I discovered in dovetails, thanks Rob.

[JamesScalf-qk]

Loved the knowledge share as always, Rob...

[bianchi]

Ordered your fret saw today and can’t wait to start making some dovetails with my kids. Saving up some money for the kerf blade and offset piece. Can’t wait. Great video.

[trevordecker]

Great comparison. Not surprising that all of yours looked good.

I tried the tails first, "England, " method my first three practice tails. They were just ok for my first attempt. I tried the offset method using the your marking gauge, the way you used to do it. Again it was ok, better than the non-offset method.

I ordered the Shawn shim and went straight to making a drawer for some shop furniture from some 3/8" fir I milled by hand. The dovetails were perfect, with the exception of the back of the drawer where I cut the tails off, cause I didn't mark my waste 😂.

Thanks for teaching methods that make hobby woodworkers work better. I appreciate your commitment to the craft.

Merry Christmas 🎄

[TGYoung]

Could you use the saw knife and a square to make your lines across the edge of the tail board, then come back with your dovetail marker and make your pen lines down to the marking gauge line? If you could do this it seems like you'd have the a saw kerf to drop your saw into, to with the advantage that the resulting cut should be across the board would be guaranteed square to the face of the board.