Why can't Men go to the Undying Lands?

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[CosmicCorviknight]

Odd to think there was a period in the Second Age where there were effectively trade relations between Numenor and the Undying Lands due to elves coming over to visit and bringing stuff. It would be like angels visiting from heaven and being like "This tree I've brought would look SO good in your garden mortal"

[richardgunton]

I think the issue is a matter of freedom. By allowing the Elves to go wherever they like, back and forth, even though it would make sense for them to be restricted from Middle Earth for the same reasons, you are playing favourites, giving more freedom to one group than another.

[MikaelKKarlsson]

Gimli arriving in Valinor could have been such an awesome short story.

[NathanWeeks]

It's one thing to ban humans from going to Valinor, but putting it right at the edge of what the Númenóreans could see was just a d*ck move.

[Untolddead]

I think it's obvious that the Valar didn't understand the lack of eternity any more than the humans understood eternity. That's what I think allowed Sauraun to come in. The Valar needed to show a constant presence and needed to convince every generation. For each new generation is new and must be retaught. They aren't like elves. If the devil and demons walked the earth but no angel was ever seen all of humanity would worship the devil.

[melkhiordarkfell]

Best way I had it described was like how in Lothlorien, the Fellowship spent a month but Sam only felt a week. You go to the undying lands and its even more so. You spend what feels likea week only to find its actually been years and you didn't notice.

[michaeljebbett]

Seems to me like the Valar could've allowed some enjoys to travel there, stay a few months, then return and tell people, "yeah, it's nice, but I aged, like, thirty years just being there. Probably best to stay away."

[TheArcV]

Nothing shows Sauron's power more than the knowledge and skill he used to guide Celebrimbor to work into the Great Rings -- specifically the spells that arrested the decay and normal swift changes of lands like Rivendell and Lothlorien in Middle Earth as to replicate the timelessness of Valinor. It allowed Elves to avoid the weariness of time that normally makes them incompatible in Middle Earth.

[bigalmou]

Valar to the elves, after they regularly screwed up: *it's okay, everyone makes mistakes.*

Valar to men, after they are completely ravaged by morgoth and sauron from day one: *our leader might be named Manwe, but this is a Manyou problem.*

[cobaltcardsgaming]

I LOVE how Tolkien depicts human and elves as almost envying the others’ fate in a way due to the differences in their perspectives. The long-lived elves find that it would be a gift to ascend in death to rest in a place away from Middle Earth, while humans wish that their lives would go on for longer, not understanding that with such length and achievement also comes weariness as seen by immortals in places outside of the Undying Lands.

[blardfip]

Mortals would be happy in Valinor for like a week. Then they would realize that nothing ever changes there, ever. It would be torture after a while, seeing the same scenery, hearing the same songs, the same music, the same poetry. Sure, the elves do make new things from time to time, but with eternity to work on stuff, I imagine you’d be lucky to see one new thing in your whole remaining life.

[KRJayster]

As CGP Grey put it for the Gift of Man, “Thanks, dad.”

Also the whole thing about how the different groups need different environments kind of makes me think of zoo enclosures and stimulation for your animals. “Your human isn’t stimulated enough, you need another kingdom collapse or they’ll get restless.”

[MrARock]

8:43 "The most swift-passing of all beasts..." suggests there are mortal beasts in Aman, such as the wildlife like birds and game that presumably the Eldar kept or hunted. So for the fauna of Arda, there was nothing particularly "undying" about the Undying Lands.

[TheMrJizzus]

What a great life lesson, we really should admire the seasons of our life since nothing stays the same, even we change, and we must enjoy that ride.

[jamiesuejeffery]

This is the analogy that came to my mind: I require air to live. I can hold my breath and swim in the ocean for a very short time, but I cannot live there. A fish requires water to live. They may crawl up on the beach for a short period of time, but neither can they live upon the land. The different lives are neither a blessing or a curse, but just how we are made to live.

[neildaly]

One of the many heresies of the RTK film was Gandalf describing the Undying Lands to Pippin as his afterlife.

[lyarrastark]

Thank you, Robert, for sharing your vast knowledge.

[romyaakovyan]

I think the fall of Numenor could have been prevented if the valar were not so detached from menkind. Reading the Akalabeth, I always feel the envy of men to see the undying lend and excludness from the elves and the valar. Rhe enstrangement made it easier fir Sauron to make the Numenoreans to believe in the false logic that the valar keep the secret of immortality from them. After all if moving closer to the undying land made them live longer, it's only reasonable to infer that living in Aman can cause immortality.
It seems that the valar misjudged in this case. Alas, what a tragedy.

[AlbionLegend]

I think I speak for all Numenoreans when I say 'a thirty-day trial period would have been nice.'

[MrARock]

I had never considered that the Ban of the Valar was directed exclusively at the Númenoreans, and technically, the middle men of Middle Earth could have bought a boat from them and tried it themselves, without violating any ban.