Articulation vs Sway Bar | Not What You'd Think!

How much articulation does removing your sway bar add? Which sway bar should you remove, front, rear, or both? How does that change on road driving? We focus on the Toyota Prado platform (FJ Cruiser, 4Runner, Prado, GX470) but the same idea applies to similar IFS 4X4s.

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(These are 4X the stiffness to my FJ sway bar based on my measurement. Not sure how it compares to that of the 4Runners or other models)

(These are valved for LC80 long travel but bolts on to FJ/T4R. They are VERY stiff if you have no added weight. My FJ has 250 lb drawers, 150 lb RTT, 115 lb spare tire. Only after these weight, it rides decent.)

-You also need LT springs, offset lower links and extended brake lines. They are the same as those in typical rear LT kits. Metal Tech, Dobinsons and a few other brands sell them. Note, the Timbren bump stops above are 1.5" taller than stock at 1000 lbf compression, so you do NOT need additional bump stop spacers with OME 60071L.

[TinkerersAdventure]

Here are the responses to a few frequently asked questions. I really appreciate you all for engaging and asking questions. Keep them coming!

1. Why can't you simply do a sway bar disconnect on the Toyota IFS (Prado platform specifically)? It is because Prado's sway bar end links mounts to the spindles. Most other vehicles mounts to the lower control arm. If you simply take out the end link, the sway bar will interfere and damage the outer CV and tie rod. You also cannot spin the sway bar 180 to get it out of the way with vehicle on the ground. The closest thing to a "disconnect" is the sliding end links. It does not allow full range of travel, other wise the sway bar will run into the CV like we just mentioned. It is definitely a good compromise, but existing products require extensive amount of maintenance due to all the poor sliding surfaces. Wander Lost Overland did a long term review on this. Go check out their channel!

2. Why can't you simply run extended end links for Toyota rear long travel kits? It is because if you run long enough end links for 28" long shocks, those end links will contact the lower links at compression. They essentially become the bump stops. The extended end links I have barely clears the lower links at full compression, and it is almost pulled straight and bind at full extension of my 26" long shocks. Yes, you can run my end links with 28" shocks. You are simply not getting the full droop of your shocks. The binding end links become your droop limiter and you risk them breaking over time.

These again illustrate the idea I stated in the video. "There are many interactions under the surface. The obvious answer at the first glance is often not comprehensive."

[bradarsenault]

Sway bars are often used for controlling body roll and weight transfer at or near the limits of the tires, so you may not notice a dramatic difference with everyday on road driving, but when you need to make an emergency maneuver at highway speeds, it can be the difference between recovery from the maneuver and extreme oversteer/vehicle rolling over.

[ocvegasproperty]

How did I get sucked into this video? I drive a 911.

[lexus_offroad_adventures]

I’m definitely going to be following this data on my build. My rear sway bar broke and I’ve just been running as-is for a while but I now see I’m missing out on a bunch of front articulation by not forcing the front suspension to work, which leads to the rig feeling a bit tippy and makes it prone to wheel lifts off road.

[zeitgeist]

On-road performance - with rear sway bar only, that reduces grip on the rear which might lead to oversteer instead of the usual (and safer) understeer tendency of most unmodified vehicles. I know from racing a front wheel drive car with an open diff. We stiffened up the rear sway bar to help keep the front wheels on the ground giving better drive out of corners (same method that you show) but it changed the grip balance to the front making the car oversteer more often. Great video by the way. Love to see someone explaining how things really work instead of giving people what they want to hear.

[VanceGreen]

Man, I love your channel! This is exactly the kind of stuff I love geeking out on. You do an excellent job of breaking down the problem, explaining the possible solutions simply with pros and cons (with real data!), and managing to still feel concise and to the point.

[zedxrom]

Good stuff, your videos are basically reinstating everything I learned over the years of messing around with my 4runner, I run no front sway bar, extended travel kings, SPC ucas, Icon long travel rear shocks, doninsons springs, OEM rear sway bar with extended links, panhard bar rise bracket and notched lower trailing arms. I love this setup, it gets me places!!! Dreaming of dirt king LT front! Thank you for your videos, I send them to all my IFS wheeling friends, especially when they ignore what I say about chasing caster and cab mount clearance! Haha

[sdparksMS]

I recognize and appreciate the amount of work that went into all this testing, thank you! I suspected removing the front only was going to be the winner. That's what I run when I'm going on a trip where more flex is important. I originally started after installing a gas tank slid that made getting the rear bar off impractical, but I noticed that the flex was great and reasoned that it should indeed be loading the front more. I get full flex out of both the front and rear in this configuration. (2" lift, relatively light GX470)

A note for anyone about to go remove their front bar after watching this video: The ends of the sway bar are in just the right position to drop down and tear your axle boots. Drape a few rags over the boots to provide some protection.

[HaugenDustin]

Your videos keep getting better and better. Such relevant information that isn’t covered accurately in other DIY videos. Really appreciate your hard work!!

[virginkarter]

Making the sway bar more stiffer in the rear makes it really good for off road, but when you drive it on the highway and when there is a high speed corner your outer-rear wheel is loaded so high that it will loose traction and oversteer. But it will be fun to see how it drifts though 😉

[Dav-S]

good analysis! I have decades of experience setting up race car suspension, so I put that to use on my Gen 2 Tacoma. What I ended up doing was removing the front bar and adding a rear bar with custom links. I'm currently working with a bar manufacturer to build me a heavier bar (1" instead of 7/8"). The combination gives me a good balance of handling and predictable trail manners.

[dixonbuttes]

Great analysis, as always. Another thing I would like to know is; How much added stress is put on other parts, and what new weaknesses are added by removing the sway bar. I know the CV axles and ball joints are exposed to much more articulation and strain, but I don't know by how much. And, it would be good to know by how much the strain is amplified on these parts at the extremes of travel. As in, CVs aren't as strong at full-lock steering and droop or compression of the suspension -- but Toyota likely designed these tolerances with the sway bar or KDSS in place. It would be interesting to learn more about the amount of stress removal of the sway bar puts on these other critical parts, in relation to what they were designed for. The number of Yotas being recovered offroad due to balljoint and CV axle failure is pretty significant, so I suspect there's a tie to these other parts being impacted with removal of the sway bar.

[redvikinghobbies]

Happen to not only be an FJ guy, heck might have already commented on this video, but I'm also into rc cars and trucks as a hobby where these exact principles are used and this has to be one of my favorite videos on YouTube. Just great. Kudos!

[stellanmccarthy]

The biggest reason to remove the front sway bar on ifs is to get true independant suspension, running rear extended links also helps retain the rear swaybar with max flex, my fj runs a true long travel rear with stock sway bar on extended links

[kalesoup]

I have been running with out a front swaybar on my 3g4r since I had it and I like how it handles on road. After I installed my 3” lift I left the rears disconnected to see how it felt and it was too unstable for me.

Front disconnected, rear connected is perfect for me and I’m glad there’s some data to back that up now haha

Love your videos. Thank you!!

[Aliholic]

I was just talking about the suspension travel with my GF re: solid axles vs. independent suspension. The amount of effort that went into making this video is phenomenal. I applaud you good sir!

[drumhed]

It's not just about articulation.. Removing front swaybar from an IFS vehicle gives you truly independent suspension, and thus, a dramatically improved ride quality over bumps.

[PatrickRich]

its important to note that front/rear stiffness balance for road manners is important. Dramatically reducing the front stiffness can create a strong oversteer tendency, which is obviously not desirable on tall vehicles. The safer on road setup is to remove the rear to get miles of understeer. OR better yet, disconnectable front sway bar.

[ericparlee]

I have a great real world example of this, I removed my front sway bar in my 06 dodge magnum as I live in an area with very bad roads, instantly I felt a noticeable difference in handling that felt better on bendy rough roads. I will admit on the highway at higher speeds it's much easier to notice a lack of stability but for my application it works and I have no plans of reinstalling it

[-A.n.d.r.e.w-]

An excellent video - thorough, well tested and well justified. Thanks a load for this! Suspension is so much more complicated than people realise (me included): stiffness per corner, ride height, front to rear balance, roll centers, etc. etc. It's a mine field for anyone except a trained engineer! This did a great job of demonstrating complex interactions in "layman's terms".

For on road driving, I find most people say they can't feel a difference. This is probably true for normal driving. The problem is in abnormal situations like swerving, emergency breaking, and sliding etc. This is where there will be a huge difference when the sway bars are removed. Ask yourself, if you can't feel a difference, why not? Sway bars are there for a VERY good reason. So be dam careful!

Disconnect for off road and then reconnect for on road is the best solution in my opinion.