John Mark Comer Exposes the Truth About the Discipleship Crisis

In Part 5 of the Church Trends series, John Mark Comer talks about the crisis in discipleship.

John Mark also dives into the stages of spiritual growth, why weekend services and sermons aren't resonating like they used to, and how to determine your real motives. John Mark Comer and Carey discuss what's wrong with today's church services and why they're perhaps not enough, and why John Mark's no longer traveling and speaking.

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Welcome to The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast, a podcast about leadership, change, and personal growth. I hope this episode helps you thrive in life and leadership.

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After years of chaos and heartache for many church leaders, it’s a great time to look to the future. The horizon ahead isn’t all roses, but at least it’s addressable. 

SUBSPLASH

Growing churches focus on discipleship in our digital world and your church can be one of them.

Intro Music:
Song: Alexey Anisimov - Always Be Beautiful
Music provided by Tunetank.

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Chapters
0:00:00 - John Mark Comer and the Sunday Service
0:01:10 - Welcome to the podcast
0:02:21 - Stepping down from leading a church
0:06:30 - The shadow side of the church model
0:14:48 - Why church is underwhelming
0:35:48 - Moving through the stages of spiritual formation
0:50:47 - Determining our motivations
1:09:50 - Practicing the way
1:21:00 - Training versus trying

[solagracia]

I finally found someone who has put some words to where I think/feel I’m at regarding church

[davidmoerbe]

JMC - actually identifies a major problem in modern worship and I don’t think he even realizes it. He talks about being underwhelmed in worship but notice how he describes worship. It’s always in relation to a sermon series. If that’s worship is defined by the sermon series or the set list then yea it will be underwhelming after awhile. The loss of the liturgy in so many places creates this. I have found the liturgy to be this incredible tool to draw the focus off of me and on to Christ. And Christ is never underwhelming.

[benherr]

I remember talking with John Mark during the height of his mega church career and trying to talk about my frustrations and questions with the church and people not being transformed and discipled. I was pretty much shutdown and put in my place as a naive, less educated person working in youth ministry. I too am thankful for JM's journey and honesty in this podcast as it does clearly communicate both the dangers of the American church structure and what is needed. I am glad some of our American "christian stars and hero's" are beginning to speak out because the voice of the common practitioner who is trying to follow Jesus and mature as a disciple most times gets squashed by those in power in the pulpit. I have very much appreciated JM's Practicing the Way material as I believe it is so much more helpful in the work of helping people mature and experience Christ than his mega church every did.

[AlanaDDamron]

Long story short... THIS was my "church" today and I can't THANK YALL enough!!! Holy Spirit met me here and spoke right into my wilderness of the last 4 years! SO GRATEFUL!!!

[vintagex]

I’m going to have to re-watch this multiple times

[beloveddavid]

Small is beautiful. The Kingdom of God grows smaller and smaller as we lean into Jesus and his way… the deepest levels of growth happen in this space. Amen JMC. Jesus had 70, invested in 12, and was most deeply invested in the three.

[andrearush]

So appreciating what JMC is bringing to the table, specifically, the courage to talk about the non-conventional, out of the box, very abiding creativity of relationship with Jesus and others who desire to follow Him. His perspective as a pastor who internally struggled with the role brings a needed human candidness to the role in a setting where there is much harm being done by both shepherds and sheep who are missing the heart of the matter - Church is the Body of Christ, not a business. Thank you, JMC, for breaking out of the pressure to perform and speaking the truth over worrying about image. May we all have the courage for this He gives if we are willing.

[ryanlund]

That subtle bomb about the civil war between a dad’s career and how work will almost assuredly crank up at about the same time kids need more from dad is fascinating. I’ve never heard that before, but now that I’m thinking about it I see it all the time. Super helpful. Thanks for the interview, both of you!

[gloryrevealed]

Gosh I will return to this conversation again and again. It resonated with me so deeply!

[rayleneberryman]

What a gift these guys are to the church. As one of the older retired pastors I so appreciate the wisdom.

[ronzack]

One of the best conversations I've heard on the issues facing the modern American evangelical. Thank you so much for doing this. I could relate to almost everything John Mark Comer talked about.

[PedroOnPurpose]

OMG. I’ve been talking about these things for decades cross referencing studies and thinking I was all alone! Thank you for this amazing conversation Carey and John

[CHASEYOURVISION]

Such complex thoughts said so well and simply

[andrewmorrison]

These conversations don't so much restore hope, but give hope eternal substance

[ChirpyChat]

The rewards of unrushed convo...tuning in from Singapore.

[truthfirst]

I have heard all the interest around JMC, have his first book at home but haven’t read it yet. I can see why he is a populist name. His ideas resonate with all the noise, distraction and disillusionment each of us wade through daily. Clearly a very bright guy but also a clear communicator who has radical authenticity.

[dw]

Carey & JMC....this is just fantastic. I could listen to you two in this long form discussion endlessly. Please stay connected - you'll never run out of material. Love you both - you both are incredible gifts to all of us walking this life. The deeper we grow in Christ, the more complicated and beautiful these discussions become.

[Squirrelled]

I went to John Marks church for many years and directly in the middle of the collapse of his head pastor time, but haven’t listened to him in at least 5 years. What an amazing transformation to see someone so purposely changing for the positive. I’ll never forget how brilliant he was back then - but now he’s brilliant and humble. Amazing.

[josephnieves]

Dude this is freaking amazing!!! Wow, this was able to put so much language into what I've been walking through. Thank you for this

[patriciaharris]

I have been waiting with bated breath from the moment I heard you mention bringing John Mark back on the show. I knew it would be excellent and it did not disappoint. YOU have truly been a tremendous blessing to my life Carey - thank you for exposing me to so many wonderful voices in the Christian leadership space. God bless you! 🙏🏾