The Psychology of the Charismatic Movement w/ Dr. Breuninger and Isaac Wicker

Dr. B and Isaac talk about the charismatic movements psychology and interplay with the rise of Traditionalism.



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[catholicarrows]

I got kicked out of a charismatic group here in Australia. I complained they were too controlling, and they were. Also, it was very protestant-feeling. No crucifixes, only crosses. They sprung the microphone on me one day and asked me to say a prayer, I started to recite the Hail Mary and they snatched it off my hands only a few words in. Later I found myself being completely ignored at mass by some members I had previously invited to my home for dinner. Too weird for me. The speaking in tounges seemed contrived, they almost suggested they were giving you a 2nd Baptism with their slaying of the spirit. Saying all that, there were some really good people who went, real devout people, but for me? I'll stick to tradition, mass, confession and rosary.

[philippbosnjak]

As an introvert charismatics are way too loud for me I prefer sitting in adoration 😂

[Charlotte_Martel]

As someone whose mother joined a Pentecostal church for 5 yrs, Catholics need to battle against embracing these movements. The trauma (I will detail it if asked) I experienced in that church drove me into atheism for decades. Traditional Catholicism already perfectly blends the intellectual and the emotional with transubstantation. Outside influences do not benefit the Mass.

[taradill]

Every movement of the Holy Spirit, be it the Charismatic movement or the “movement” towards Traditional Catholicism or any other move of the Spirit will have folks who are not necessarily functioning in the Spirit but are fulfilling fleshly needs. We need to be careful about “judging” a movement of the Holy Spirit from a human point of view. Certainly there have been abuses here just as there have been abuses in other movements in the Church. We would be wise not to judge the “Psychology” of the movements, but the fruits. By their fruits we will know them…

[gunsgalore]

I would say there are many parts, all one body. The Charismatic Movement is not something I find myself super-excited about, but I'm happy for those that really find it wonderful. There's a place for the more intellectual, a place for the more emotional, and a place for the in-between. I think the Charismatic Movement might be a wonderful place for many of the Evangelical Protestants I know down here in the rural South, especially Pentecostals, just as the Eastern Catholic churches are a great place for converts from Eastern Orthodoxy. They're expressing their faith similar to how they always have, just now it's the true faith.
But for me, I'm not a fan. I don't really get excited even about praise and worship tunes, just all seems kind of cheesy and poppy to me. But as I say, I'm glad for those who really like it.

[debralittle]

Same here. I much prefer a quiet setting . People and noise can be exhausting.

[johncorcoran]

I love the charismatic renewal, 30 years and still love the praise and worship, l love the Holy Mass and scripture too along with the gift of tongues. The best and most loyal friends and helped me grow in my relationship with Jesus.

[davedunst]

It's a false dichotomy. St. Thomas (et al) does not have ecstacy in prayer because of the sheer sublimity of their intellectual recognition of divine truths. By the same token almost no one has come to sublime divine truths by throwing themselves into charismatic expression without silent, intentional contemplation.

It is by intense moments of relation with the Father in the Spirit that we come by those precious and rare moments as well as instants of internalization of divine mysteries.

[uikmnhjme]

The Catholic charismatic renewal has been a profoundly good force in my life. Manifesting the movement of my soul externally with my body comes very naturally to me because I’m a dancer, and if done right it is not performative or Vegas-like at all. However, just as with anything good, emotions can be manipulated and abused. This means that not every charismatic group is going to have a healthy dynamic. Sometimes the egos of those running it take over. But if you find yourself a deeply catholic group or even pray alone in your room with arms raised to heaven, that’s a beautiful thing. You’re praying as a whole person, body and soul! Very much like the first apostles.

[Sithijaederaga]

As a beloved son of the most high and as a proud charismatic I say boldly say that the renewal was the turning point of my life I started to read the bible and started learning the teachings of the church from the renewal its self

[marytownsend]

Both my parents became involved in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. I respect their journey and watched to see fruits of their new venture. After seeing positive changes in their life together, in the community where they continued to be of service but in a more profound way, I took part as well. In time, my older daughter enjoyed conferences w me. We both have prayer languages that are handy at filling in the gaps . When at a loss for words the Holy Spirit can take over. It involves a learned act of surrender; of opening oneself further to God. The Holy Trinity becomes central in a special, personal way. Scripture reading and studies were of enormous benefit to me. I received healings as well.
Yes I met some wacko people: not surprising bc Jesus came for the sick, the downtrodden, the fringes of society. I saw these people being lovingly cared for, patiently tolerated and seldom in charge of groups. It has been over 30 yrs now. My parents have gone to their eternal reward, and tho I am not active in a regular group I am able to use gifts so graciously given from my Lord and Savior.
A lot of the music is from my high school days. I like some in particular.
Lack of reverence was never an issue in the New Orleans area. The priest were major prayers! Close to the 3 in One.
Oh! And once I found the remark in Genesis about the Spirit of God playing amidst creation, I decided I liked Him quite a bit. In my mind He's the playful One!

[TheJmlew]

I think one challenge I would make is this. While the call to relationship is beautiful in the charismatic movement I think there is often a flawed understanding of what relationship is.

YES we should be telling God, this is me in all my brokenness. We should be vulnerable. We should also give praise for all that he is and his love for us.

But what I have found in my experience with the charismatic movement (I would attend groups when at seminary and even went to a couple of conferences because I wanted to be open to it and respectful towards it) is that it then dictates that relationship of God. Rather than listen to what he has to say, we set the conditions of the relationship. We say what he is doing for us and how we are in relation to him, not the other way around.

I’m sure there are some who can be a part of this movement and have this sense rightly ordered, but I found far too often it leads towards this path.

That and I also do not care for speaking in tongues which I found in all of those circles.

I think there is a beauty in praise and worship and I love being able to name the love of Christ for me, but I’ve been quite cautious around the movement as a whole.

[davidrojas]

This is easy enough to articulate in conceptual/spiritual conversations, but when it comes to applying this at the pastoral level, it's much harder to navigate.

[bad_covfefe]

I think Matt is misunderstanding the nature of Charismatic and Pentacostal theology. They are not teaching that it is good to be enthusiastically in love with God or anything similar. Rather, they believe that these excited emotional states they fins themselves in ARE the supernatural workings of God, which is, plainly, ludicrous.

Charismatics are likely to tell you that the goosebumps you get when listening to worship music means the Holy Spirit is working in you. Sorry, but no, that is not what it means.

[JullianRoman]

Wish you could interview Fr. Dwight Longnecker, former Anglican priest.

[greentorm]

I dont need the charismatic movement personally, I have no problem sitting still and listening..

[HSFire]

Yes! So good! This is important for more traditional priests to recall. To allow oneself to be absorbed in the worship of Holy Mass, chanting the prayers from the heart, caught up in the adoration of the blessed Trinity.

[debralittle]

No one covered what happens when they abuse you

[OmoyeUduehi-cg]

I grew up and attended the pentecostal movements for many years before I entered the church. If someone loves it, good for them. Definitely not for me and I cannot encourage it in good conscience.

[syn]

How can you support this and complain about Novus Ordo?