Why It's Hard to Help a Narcissist | FRANK YEOMANS

Frank Yeomans describes the dilemma we face when dealing with narcissists, whether as therapists, friends or family members. On the one hand: destroying what allows the narcissist to feel good about themselves. On the other: going along with a near-psychotic fantasy.

We talked with Frank Yeomans about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and how they can affect us on a personal and societal level.

Frank Yeomans is an expert clinician who makes use of Transference-Focused Psychotherapy in his practice treating NPD and BPD. In fact, he co-wrote the manual on TFP for Borderline Personality Disorder!

[Mrsvragica]

I think what many don't understand is that "being tactful around the person not to induce rage" is so draining it sucks the life out of you, especially when the person with the disorder has no self-reflection. Kudos to those who can do it ❤

[wagenna]

I do have BPD and NPD and I struggle really hard in dealing with my NPD father. When I was confronted with the fact that I had this disorder I neglected it shortly and then changed into being interested in it. Within the years I have become pretty self-aware, don't meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD anymore and continue to work hard on myself. Growth makes me happy, which is why I have mostly stayed on track and used therapy to help me. My father has the opposite attitude. My attitude was and is: okay, I can change this and grow. His attitude is denial and nothing else.
I have now decided to mostly give up on him because of this. He's hurtful and emotionally abusive so often that I just don't want to deal with it anymore.

[christar]

This man is excellent. The narcissist will react to you bursting their bubble with RAGE. I guess if you love the person enough you’ll try to get them to see reality but most of us are better off by leaving them in their fantasy world and going no contact.

[goldmarie]

I do not have problems beeing tactful to others. But, as nicer you try to be to a person with very low self esteem as more usually you will be disrespected, cause you lift them up and they will look down on you. So, if you don’t „burst their bubble“ you have to be a very strong person to go along with someone who lives in a parallel universe looking down on you. I know, narcissistic people also deserve a lot of understanding but if you do, you are lost. It is a circle you have to leave cause there is no solution.

[isobelle.London]

He has so much empathy ❤ I wish he was my mum

[buelan.]

I am grateful I had a therapist who hung in there with me when I was so verbally abusive and awful towards him. Very rare. When I got through that phase in my therapy, I apologized to him. His response was “You were terrified” and it really sunk in how caring he was. So, my point is, there is hope in working with individuals who react this way and I commend people who choose this as a profession. I know I don’t have the wherewithal to stay with that type of abuse and I believe it is absolutely critical to search for the “right” therapist and.not just a counselor (sorry counselors).

[TomeRodrigo]

You could eventually heal a narcissist by constantly causing them narcissistic injuries, and prevent them to become suicidal or aggressive at the same time, so they are forced to heal those injuries, which can take years, but it can broaden their psyche into different psychological "platforms" which they can then use to observe their own grandeur delusions. Of course, some shame is needed to feel bad about these behaviours, otherwise, it won't work.

[andynixon]

Sadly most narcissists will never give credence to the fact that their condition even exists let alone seek or except treatment. In which case, where possible put distance between you and them . Certainly don't be the kind soul that you are are try to mend them, it's destructive to you and makes them worse . Save your kindness for everyone else including yourself.

[lisarochwarg]

A great illustration of a narcissist's magical thinking.

[jewishgenes]

How many narcissists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?


None, they use gaslights.

[mingonmongo]

Spot on, and between an increasingly narcissistic culture, and a personal tendency to 'attract' them ('cuz I find they're often interesting individuals), these days it's not always easy to avoid N's altogether. So what to do?
But being as they're so hungry for 'strokes', have occasionally found it helpful to notice and point out their _unrecognized_ skills and positive traits... _besides_ the ones that are part of their 'False Self'. Which provides two important functions: first, by becoming a valuable, if infrequent source of narcissistic supply, you're no longer seen as a 'threat'. But second, and more important, it presents a limited, but significant opportunity to deal with them on a positive, yet maybe more 'authentic' level.

[havadatequila]

But even if one can tactfully burst their bubble, the narcissist is still left with the basic premise of their personality: I am a piece of shit. If the therapist can't deal with that, don't burst the bubble and refer the patient to someone who can.

[sunkid]

As a narcissist i wouls add two things:
1. Yes please make me face reality…but then take a stand in it, carry on and bear the weigt of it. Also, there will be answers where there is 100% that the people making me face said things are also hiding their grave mistakes, that prevent both of us from moving forward. So I can only step ahead if you do to. Lies cannot propell me to do anything.
2. What is the reason behind my delusions? Are we not talking about that? The fact that there is no real emotional connection between family and the narcissist. And since mostly its the family and parents who are posing these questions its pretty funny to me that they are trying to support me when they are the ones that failed supporting me in the first place. If there was a safe environment in any of such sutiation I would not be compelled to inflate my importance since I felt loved. So its the not-loving that the issue and the cause is and narcissism is simply a coping mechanism a symptome to that expereince.

[Timmerdetimmerdetim]

My gosh, his observations are so accurate. I'm still grappling with this about how to deal with both of my parents. I've tried about everything but the narcissistic abuse keeps on coming... Now I've decided to go no contact with both of them. It's creating stress and dissonance for me but at least I'm free.

[aneily]

None of the narcissists in my life have these "opera star" fantasies. They are mostly confident, aggressive, dominating, manipulative and incredibly insecure. And also very interesting and wonderful people who have to lie about inconsequential things and throw fits and be delusional about the things they've done or said.
But no, nobody I've ever met has one of these "opera star" examples which seems more generally delusional than narcissistic to me.

[psilaramendes]

Does this "caring tactfullness" around a narcisist ever feel like playing an unhealthy role in an adult relationship? Where is the line between being a caring friend or partner or an enabler for an imbalanced relationship?

[analozada]

Concur…yet, I know many people who have achieved many goals and dreams at mid-age and even later in their lives.

I understand that there’s a difference between reality and delusion, but when someone is trying to work on achieving their dreams later in life, it shouldn’t be considered “crazy” or “unrealistic”, nor should be limited or squashed by anyone’s shortsightedness.

Look who we had as president?
The dude is an old, inept, malignant narc who no one EVER thought he would be able to win a presidency, yet he won. He proved his point.

I know a mature woman who was on tons of meds, overweight with poor health, then she started tapering the meds, eating healthy and started training to compete as a body builder. People made fun of her and thought she was delusional cuz “she was too old for that.”
Well, this lady now is the oldest bodybuilder in the world, she has set new records of most won competitions in her category, she has appeared in many super famous tv shows, she opened up her own gym where she trains other adult/mature women, and she’s in perfect health.

Moral of the story: never underestimate the vision, will power of a driven person.

My question is…can she sing opera?
Or is it a delusion she created?

That will determine if her “dream” has the possibility to become reality.

[FLdancer]

That's one of my hurdles, dealing with their lies. It's hard for me to just sit there and pretend they are saying something true. But when I say "We never went to Disneyland", it turns into a whole ordeal. I've even shown proof of where I was that day and it means nothing to them.

[BlackCoffeeee]

Narcissists can be likened to sleep-walkers. Don't try to wake them up, it's too dangerous. Instead, guide them back to where they're supposed to be. Their dream is to deep and needs a trained expert to coax them out of their nightmare.

[jameshicks]

My ex was a narcissist, or possibly struggled with complex PTSD with strong narcissistic features. I was a major depressive with some schizoid features. Really bad combination. I have a pretty strong background in science and philosophy, and he was operating with a delusion that he had created an anti-gravity engine built around gyroscopes. This grandiose delusion was supported by the fact of his invention of a successful magic trick and the minor fame it produced. There was no way to tactfully point out the problems with this revolutionary "engine" idea that would change the world. Any effort resulted in a fight. I wasn't supportive, I have a bad attitude etc. So I just played along after a while, knowing that the interest would fade and be replaced by something else, "Oh that's very interesting. I hope you can solve the engineering problems etc." The farthest this delusional manifestation got was one crude drawing of an overview on a few sheets of graph paper taped together. He was upset when I told him he should look into Solidworks, an engineering cad program with physics modeling.