Contrapoints v Philosophy Tube On Gender Dysphoria | The Kyle Kulinski Show

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"The first time I ever really listened to Kyle Kulinski’s show was in the back of a cab last summer. The driver had his phone hooked up through the stereo and was pumping out an episode through the car speakers — loudly, as if looking to convert a captive audience.

“Do you like Kyle Kulinski?”

The driver, Ahmed, was a recent immigrant and apparently a die-hard fan of Secular Talk, the political talk show that Kulinski broadcasts on YouTube. I told him, yes, in fact. I do like Kulinski, had come across his show several years ago, and, all things considered, he seemed pretty good.

“He understands what we’re up against,” Ahmed said. “Like Bernie.”

But I was surprised to hear Kulinski’s name mentioned in the same breath as Bernie Sanders, particularly with such adoration. Because what I did remember about Kulinski’s show struck me as mostly capital-P “progressive” takes on the news — the left wing of the Netroots crowd more than the democratic socialism Sanders has popularized.

It’s an impression that wasn’t entirely incorrect.

“I have no time for philosophical, airy bullshit,” Kulinski tells me from his home in Westchester, New York. “I don’t want to hear about Lenin. I don’t want to hear about Marx. I just want a super plainspoken, straightforward agenda with a straightforward way of selling it.”

With over 800,000 subscribers and nearly 670 million total views on YouTube, selling a progressive agenda is clearly something Kulinski knows how to do — even Democracy Now, the long-standing flagship of progressive media, cannot match his reach on the platform. Chapo Trap House can certainly boast a wildly devoted fan base (and a not insignificant degree of media influence), but their audience is roughly half the size of Kulinski’s.

While Secular Talk might be more likely to be looped in with the progressive networks around Air America and Pacifica alums like Sam Seder than the more resolutely socialist world, Kulinski’s fiery rhetoric, razor-sharp class instincts, and knack for withering takedowns sets him apart from his peers. Judging by his rhetoric alone, he’s closer to a Eugene Debs than a Chris Hayes.

But unlike Hayes, Amy Goodman, or his friend Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks — who began airing Secular Talk on his web network seven years ago — the thirty-two-year-old Kulinski is virtually invisible in the mainstream media. Despite his enormous fan base, his show has never once been mentioned in the obligatory trend pieces on “the Millennial Left” pumped out by the prestige media. Nor has Kulinski’s name ever popped up at all in the New York Times, Vox, the New Yorker, New York Magazine, or the Washington Post, despite his leading role in cofounding Justice Democrats, the organization widely credited with sweeping Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the rest of “the Squad” to power.

Just last week, his Wikipedia page was deleted. The reason? “There is very simply no [reliable source] coverage of this person,” according to one moderator. In new media, he’s king — the Sean Hannity of the Berniecrat left. In old media, he’s nobody.

I suspect there are a few reasons for that. There is nothing “cool” about Kulinski’s show. (As a friend put it, “‘Welcome to Secular Talk’ sounds like something you’d hear on Egyptian radio.”) His no-nonsense social-democratic politics won’t get him much cred with the Full Communism crowd. He records his show not in Brooklyn or Los Angeles, but in a studio he built himself in his modest Westchester home. His hair is too groomed and his taste in clothes too preppy to qualify as “Dirtbag Left.” Nor has he ever attended an n+1 release party. “Not only have I not attended one,” he says, “I have no idea what that means.”

And yet he’s astonishingly plugged-in for a young man in the suburbs. Wondering how Sanders ended up on the Joe Rogan Experience? Kulinski, a frequent guest on Rogan’s wildly popular show, introduced them. “You make the most sense to me,” Rogan told Kulinski on a recent episode. “You’re a normal person.”

Much like Sanders himself, Kulinski’s show has a massive audience that just doesn’t compute with our media’s understanding of “what the kids want” or even “what the left-wing kids want.”

It’s probably for the best — the very woke and very WASP-ish decorum haunting much of the media world is nowhere to be found in Secular Talk. “Corporate Democrats over-focus on identity as a trick to divert you from the issues that unite us all — class issues,” he said on a recent episode.

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[darcybhaiwala]

I think it's clear that Abigail is coming from a "dealing with the NHS" experience and Natalie is coming from a "dealing with American 'health care' and bigotry" experience. These are normative social arguments meant to deal with decisions made by institutions

[Banana_Fana]

Abigail explains her position more thoroughly in her video "I Emailed My Doctor 133 Times: The Crisis In the British Healthcare System." The point she's trying to make is that gender dysphoria isn't a unique feeling, but more of a umbrella term which describes the spectrum of negative feelings a trans person can feel in regards to their body and their gender. The feelings are still very real, but being miserable because of one's assigned gender at birth is still just misery, which is a universal human emotion.

She argues that as a medical diagnosis the term was invented by cis people with very little backing, and that this usage is outdated. In the UK the diagnosis of gender dysphoria is a cog in a very oppressive machine that completely segregates trans healthcare from other NHS services, and forces trans people into waiting for literal years to get an appointment to start HRT. To even receive the diagnosis involves waiting for one of these appointments, in which trans people are asked a swath of completely humiliating and degrading questions which determine whether or not trans people can even get a diagnosis. Given that these appointments can take years to receive, trans people in the UK unsurprisingly study the standardized questions like an exam and lie on certain questions to meet the criteria which has been designed by cis people.

Under this context, the whole diagnosis of dysphoria is tool of the state to gatekeep trans people from medical care in the UK. What Abigail wants is for trans segregation in NHS to be abolished, and for gender affirming care to be a part of normal medical care in the UK.

This is obviously very different from the US, where getting the diagnosis is a lot easier, but every medical issue is a battle with insurance companies and US lawmakers to prove that you need care to begin with. So understandably, in the US where Natalie lives, it's more important than ever for trans people to have a diagnosis as the far-right pushes further and further to ban gender affirming care entirely. It's no wonder then that Natalie and other US trans people would be upset by the prospect of removing the diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

I believe that Abigail is technically correct, but that Natalie AND Abigail are both arguing for the best outlook on gender dysphoria for their respective countries.

[Effective_tool_of_Satan]

I think Abby is talking about the fact that trans people were forced to "prove" they had dysphoria in order for the doctors to allow treatment. Something that is dehumanising and condescending. Also it ignores the fact that not every trans person viscerally "hates" their body

[fitz]

Saw Philosophy Tube's last video touching on this - What Abigail objects to is basically the diagnosis of 'gender dysphoria' which effectively has cis doctors sometimes arbitrarily setting bars for people to be considered valid. She didn't do a good job of expressing this here. No one denies trans people feel what we at the moment describe as 'dysphoria'. But there's a different between feeling that, and the overall medical diagnosis that was just invented - like calling it a mental disorder before. It's not a fact of reality - and open to change.

[laurelannp]

I'm trans and the degree I wish I could get surgery is intense. I can't take hormones due to my other health issues. I'm literally suffering everyday due to this like insane. I think we need to keep dysphoria as a concept so we can communicate what we are experiencing. I get Abby saying that we shouldn't have to prove to get surgery. But I understand why we need it that way especially for healthcare to cover it

[bjorn]

I'm still holding out hope that Kyle and Krystal will have Natalie as a KK&F guest.

[jennahveer]

Hey Kyle longtime viewer trans woman here! Dysphoria is definitely real, but just like every part of transition different folks experience it in different ways and severities. Most trans folks I know had the common feelings you think about (being born in the wrong body, not matching how you identify inside) and it was pretty intense, but like for me it was much more muted, and was less of a “this is awful” to “thats better” and more of a “my body gives me no feeling at all I guess this is how everyone feels” to “holy shit you can like how your body looks???”

[MissStargazer]

I think you said it perfectly Kyle. As a trans woman, I don’t think I could’ve responded to this better than you did here.

[deidara_]

Where we are on trans people today as a society is EXACTLY where we were on homosexuality 50 years ago. Being trans shouldn't be a diagnosis, it shouldn't be pathologized. Gender affirming care should be easily accessible without having to duel with beaurocracy and waiting in lines for years on end. People who say they are trans, are 100% trans, and the system should not be wasting resources trying to figure out of they are "really" trans. That is dehumanizing and counter-productive.

[pointhot]

Dysphoria is hard to explain to someone that doesn’t feel it, if I had to explain it. It would be like a constant headache, when you are having a conversation it’s there, when you are playing with your kids it’s there, you’re always reminded that somethings terribly wrong. Mirrors are painful, clothes are painful, shoes, voice, conversations, friends. It’s crushing.

[liamsloan]

Kyle seeing a 300L pot of boiling soup and thinking "I'll just jump right in" haha love it kyle ❤

[myselfapretend]

I am a normie as well when it comes to all this. But, like both Contra and PhilTube, I have a background professionally in philosophy.

If I had to guess what Abigail means by her original statement, and even more so going by her reply about phlogiston as well, I would say that she is arguing that the experience of torment is quite real (just as the burning of a combustible body is a very real event), but that the conceptual framework of how we validate and speak about that experience is ( like the purely culturally contingent and purely conceptual and today very outdated model of phlogiston to account for the burning) another matter.

The experience is real. The conceptual framework is not the experience as such, but simply a way of making sense of the experience.

Just like how the suffering of hysteria was real. But hysteria is now an outmoded framework for talking about those women's suffering.

This, at least, is my supposition.

[oliverhalliwell]

I love both Natalie and Abigail. I think what Abby said was misunderstood. She goes way further into it in her video. Gender dysphoria exists for trans people, BUT it’s not exclusive to trans people. I think her point is that the “gender dysphoria” diagnosis has turned more into a gate keeping concept that doctor’s use to keep trans people from accessing gender affirming care. I don’t think she meant that the feelings that trans people feel don’t exist, just that the way doctor’s conceptualize it does more harm than good.

[JayneAFK]

The word "dysphoria" literally just means a feeling of varying degrees of discomfort. Like, at the risk of oversharing, I'm about 86% sure I have PMDD now. PMDD is, for those who don't know Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, and it's basically an extreme form of PMS. It's hell. I already have depression as it is, but usually my depression takes the form of a numbness and apathy. With PMDD, I am uncharacteristically emotional, very, very sad and hopeless, more likely towards self harming behaviours, nigh constant suicide ideation. Then my period happens and it's like a switch is flipped and I'm back to being numb again, until next month where it starts all over again.

In other words, dysphoria is discomfort. Gender dysphoria is varying degrees of discomfort or dissatisfaction with one's sex, because their gender doesn't match up. Maybe Abigail doesn't feel that discomfort in as noticeable a way as other trans people, but to speak over others experiences like this is not okay, imo. Many trans people feel that word really describes what they're feeling, and it resonates with them, because they feel the discomfort and it finally gives them a name for the feeling.

I think the problem with lefty wanna-be philosophers is that they want to deconstruct everything, but never actually put forth viable alternatives. Okay, so dysphoria "doesn't exist" or the word is offensive to you in some way, so give people an alternative that they might resonate with better. Stop merely destroying and taking things away. It isn't practical, and it isn't helpful. "Bu-bu-bu is an evil social construct." That's language for you; a social construct that enables us to communicate, so either provide an alternative way to *more effectively communicate, * or leave people be.

[CJ-ghbn]

Okay, I'm going to provide a trans perspective on this, because that's lacking in this comment section.

So, Abigail is wrong. Entirely so. Gender dysphoria is very real and is actually a problem and is like the main reason that HRT is a popular choice. I'm going to cautiously make a sweeping statement because this feels uncontroversial to me, the vast majority of trans people experience some form of dysphoria, as someone who has experienced it myself, it is a huge mental health issue and to ignore or say it's not real is unfounded and just some Twitter shit, I'm not going to mince words.

THAT BEING SAID, I think i can see where this line of thinking comes from. A common line of thinking in hyperonline trans circles is that you "don't need dysphoria to be trans, " which I will not be providing my opinion on in this comment because it's a landmine topic imo. The idea here is that: "yes, dysphoria is real and most trans people experience it, however it's not necessary to be transgender." The fingerprints of that line of thinking are ALL OVER Abigail's tweet, and if she had just said it without implying it's not a real actual thing, I'm pretty sure this would've not reached Kyle's line of sight lmao. But, since she decided to make it about dysphoria being "real" or not, it's now a big issue and a "beef" and it's annoying as hell.

I think the primary thing that is of note about dysphoria is that it's often kind of misconstrued. Yes, gender dysphoria is a real thing, it's a mental health thing, yeah yeah, but there's an aspect of it that is like entirely societal. Would all gender dysphoria dissipate because society goes post-gender and no longer enforces gender norms, absolutely not, but would aspects of gender dysphoria get easier to deal with, or potentially vanish? Yeah. I think the most charitable, and most correct imo, read of Abigail's tweet is that she's simply trying to advocate for a less cisnormative mindset on how we treat and deal with transgender people, which is just true regardless of how you feel about gender dysphoria. Should trans people have to jump through as many hoops as they might have to to get treatment? No. Not at all. It should be a lot easier.

Now, I am just one trans person, out of many who might see this video. I didn't even finish it lmao. But, also, gender dysphoria is real, it's not just a trans thing, and it's very very, put kindly, irresponsible to spread stuff like this. However, I think the core of what Abigail is saying is founded on SOMETHING at least. Even if the content is incorrect.

[MercyCEO]

Dysphoria is real and it can be massively painful

[knixie]

I am a trans girl. Pre transition is torture. At the height of my cracking I almost passed out several times from stress. There is pretty good evidence for gender being biological. The diagnosis of gender dysphoria has many problems BUT it is also EXTREMELY real.

If you, Kyle, want to learn more about this, I would be happy to give you a bunch of information and stories, from me and my friends.

[mind-of-neo]

I think Abigail just made an extremely poorly worded set of tweets made in anger around her own terrible experiences with being forced to prove herself for health care. Of course GD is real. I have heard from a bunch of people that there are trans people who have no GD at all but i imagine these are extremely rare cases where a person is just exceptionally emotionally strong.

[ravenswood]

Totally agree that dysphoria is a thing and am on trans' people's side here. But I don't understand people claiming that it's "not a problem." If it's not a problem, why does it feel like torture? Dysphoria is the problem, transitioning is the treatment/solution. It's insane that it's now seen as bigoted to recognize it as a problem. It's obviously a problem. Your brain and your body are not on the same page and it hurts the person going through it. In fact, to say "it's not a problem" is indeed like saying dysphoria doesn't exist.

[youtubeuserremainsanonymou]

The problem that Abigail had is context problems. She thinks that the medical gatekeeping label needs to go and people can get treatment on bodily autonomy alone.She asserts that the medical definition sucks as it has criteria that assume a lot more and the experience of dissatisfaction with not being enough of you gender often happen for cis-people-see boob jobs/penile enhancements

Of course, not all transpeople have dysphoria and many people suggest the dysphoria is about how trans identities are viewed in the context of our society. The third gender folk who are accommodated in friendlier societies may have less upset with their bodies