Are Orcs good fighters?

In this video, we look at whether Orcs were good fighters, their positives and negatives, and how well they matched up against their enemies.

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[DarthGandalfYT]

Sup everyone.

Firstly, my apologies for the gap between videos. The last two weeks have been fairly busy, but I should be back to more regular releases now.

Secondly, I'm in the process of compiling the questions that have been asked for my 30k subscriber special. There's been a lot of good ones. And if you missed the community post, feel free to ask questions in reply to this comment because I'll be taking them from here as well.

Cheers.

[PiraticalBob]

Couple of points: When Saruman's Uruk-Hai departed Parth Galen with Merry and Pippin as captives, they proved more enduring than even Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas - - they ran at a steady, mile-eating pace that allowed them to outdistance their pursuers; they ran both day and night, aided by their remarkable orc-draughts, while the pursuers had to rest and recover; and, had Eomer's men not come upon the scene, they would have succeeded in reaching Isengard with their captives. Yes, I am aware that Saruman used his magic to lay weariness on the pursuers while also lending endurance to his Uruk-Hai.

In the Battle of Azanulbizar, Azog the orc defeated Nain Son of Gror in single combat, although it should be noted that Nain was weary and Azog freshly-arrived at the battle.

Orcs had some effective medicine and beverages (orc-draughts) that were quite as good as anything carried by the forces of Good. Their medicine healed Merry quickly, although it left an unsightly scar; and their orc-draught, as has been noted already, gave them superior endurance over even the greatest of warriors.

[Uncle_Fred]

Orcs were created by Morgoth as a way to mock the children of Iluvatar and create chaos. In this role under Morgoth, they succeeded. However, once their creator was banished, Orcs enjoyed only limited successes at the fringes of the inhabited world. No independent Orcish realm ever amounted to much. If memory serves, the only independent conquest might be the third occupation of Gundabad and the capture of Moria from Thorin's [edit: Balin] company, but these are debatable. We know that the Orcs of Moria sent Mithril to Sauron as tribute, so it's possible this wasn't a completely independent venture.

Sauron and Saruman were experimenting with Orcs, so it's clear that there were pressures to modify Orc's abilities and behaviors. I'd argue that had Sauron won, Orcs would be destined to merge with or be outright replaced by men.

Unlike Morgoth, Sauron desired order. To achieve this order, Sauron needed men; Men are far superior empire builders than any Orc. Sauron's ideal dominion would never be realised though quarreling Orc fiedoms. Sauron's desired assimilated tributary mannish realms that worship him as a god.

[HeliophobicRiverman]

Quantity has a quality of its own.

You breed the orcs to quantities that can simply overwhelm powerful individual warriors of the elven or human factions, that works as a basic doctrine.
And then you can also exploit easy orc breeding to create limited quantities of higher quality orcs, like the Uruk Hai of Isengard or Mordor's Black Uruks. These don't have to match humans or elves, but you can use their more powerful frame to slap on some basic armor, thereby making them an order of magnitude more difficult to kill than the mass-bred rabble goblins.
As long as you don't fall for choke-points where combat becomes closer to a 1v1 and have enough space for large orc formations to move around in, you can just swarm enemy formations.

[Locedamius]

While the average orc might have been a weaker fighter than the average elf, dwarf or human, there were individuals (just like there were in the other races) that excelled over their peers and would be a dangerous opponent even for the elite warriors of the other races. Azog for example managed to kill Náin (who as the cousin of the king and veteran of several years of war was certainly a good fighter) in single combat.

[videocrowsnest]

Orcs just rushing a position regardless of losses also makes them a very psychologically terrifying foe to fight because they just keep coming no matter how many are mowed down. It puts a devastating amount of pressure onto a point, especially with knowledge of orcish tactics. Some of the orcs thought dead could just be pretending and be waiting for a chance to get up, pick up a fallen orcs bow and unleash an arrow as if out of nowhere. Orcs just rushing hard could be a diversion while they have siege equipment set up somewhere out of sight. It could be a costly diversion. Fighting orcs as some sort of battlefield commander, even if you can keep a position standing, would be incredibly stressful as you never quite know what they have cooked up beyond what you can gather from one's position. The fog of war would become a truly terrifying aspect, as beyond a hill could be some contraption ready to bring the pain down...or another thousand orcs ready to join the fray.

[rursus]

Extra factor forgotten: Middle Earth in third age is an age where "psychic forces" of good and evil are directly battling in a battle of wills. Under the "psychic force" of evil, orcs become much more fanatical, bold and aggressive than without that force. The most visible "psychic force" of good is Gandalf's ability to give hope and strength, most visibly onto Theoden king.

[glennross]

Tolkien says Morgoth put his own powet into the Orcs, part of that was probably his bravery, which is why Morgoth was such a coward later on and the orcs were so reckless.

[singletona]

One slim advantage of Orcs not caring about or having deep ties to the rest of their fellwos is generally they don't see it asa loss when others die. That 'More for Me. I'm the one that will get through' crab pot mentality actually working favorably in preventing a break in moral. 'Let everyone else die.' This allows for a greater resilliance to casualties so long as there is still an army there. All an orc is going ot see is 'yaay I'm surrounded by meat shields.' Where the elf, human, dwarf, etc will see 'my friends have fallen! Fall back!'

[efaristi]

Orc prisonners are exceedingky rare also because few peoples see any values or reasons to take one prisonner. Few orcs are worth taking alive, they're not reliables and most often than not, not in the confidences of their leaders.
9:40 There was also werewolves and vampires in the armies of Morgoth in the First Age.
You did a really great job explaining the weaknesses of the Orcs and yet how they still form a dangerous ennemy. You are very right when you said that orcs were a effective army, especially when associated with stronger creatures like Trolls or Demons.

[SamSloth]

They used poison too, Aragorn referenced this after they left the mines of Moria and there were different breeds, like the tracker and warrior that Sam and Frodo run into in Mordor.

[gamera]

A reminder: No force consisting solely of orcs has ever won a battle in the history of Arda. Orcs have successfully raided and ambushed, but they've never won a pitched battle without dragons, balrogs, Nazgul, or something else particularly nasty that swayed the battle in their favor.

[martinmullender-taeter]

i think the orcs are good fighters, thats their trade, mugging, banditry and ambushes ... so the orcs in the armies are quite formattable, problem is, people tend to compare them to the heroes we see, which we know are super skilled, that leaves them to be seen as mince meat... but in my opinion they are actually good, orcs did in fact kill some high value people in the past, and not just in a glorious last stand or by having the numbers, i mean they pushed the dwarves out of Moria .... thats a achievement in its own right

[ValtroileIzolda]

I know this is not a popular take, but I really love the Hobbit orcs the most. Especially the Battle of the Five Armies. I have the Art of War concept art and costume design book, and the style combo between the industriality of Isengard and the rag-tag aesthetics of the orthodox mordor orcs combine seamlessly. Add fantastic forward planning, communication, clever use of beasts and monsters and outstanding discipline, with the sheer might, tactical acumen and martial prowess of their leaders and you have a perfect army of darkness. I wish we could have a Total Warhammer style redesign of the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit trilogies as campaigns. They also finally speak in their own tongue and there is even a scene where Azog addresses his soldiers with honorable undertones instead of the usual 'go, my slave, kill; and shut up'.

[AlexEvett]

i was just thinking about this. it's always good to see a new video from you!

[dwaynebronson]

4:45 Oh no. Balin has his air pods in he cant hear the orc behind him
😭😭😭😭

[muddlewait]

*Hobbits* defeated orcs in the Battle of Greenfields, the first battle Hobbits ever fought. That’s gotta tell you something.

[Crafty_Spirit]

That track is hypnotising... love the music 👍🏼

[gagaplex]

One has to wonder how much screwing was going on to generate so many orcs for cannon fodder. Or do they spawn in litters?

[LeHobbitFan]

A Darth Gandalf video is never late, nor is it early blah blah blah you know the quote

Anywho, welcome back good sir! Let the Angs start banging!