Yaron Answers: Why Should All Property Be Private?

[RebelRadius]

Corporations also rely on the initiation of force granted to them by a piece of paper.

Business transactions are made under the threat of violence that is authorised by a piece of paper as opposed to a voluntary agreement made between 2 rational human-beings.

[RebelRadius]

An individual signs a contract with a pen held in his hand. And he waits patiently for the "emperor" in his new clothes to sign it as well.

How can anyone objectively enter into a contract with an "entity", a public, a society, a foundation, a religion, a common good? If they do so, then they deserve all the "social justice" meted out to them.

[qhack]

This is probably the only time I will have a slight difference of opinion with Yaron. We designated wilderness areas as public (government) land precisely so that private ownership would not destroy the natural environment. If we were to divvy up that land for private usage, we would end up with urban sprawl taking over the natural environment beyond what many native species could survive.

[samuils]

When did I say too big to fail? Failure comes from many sides. For a corporation to operate on the highest levels it needs those operational outlines. It never protect from failure, its absurd to think that way. But efficiency of a contract, has nothing to do with failure. If you dont have contracts, well, open a business and try to manage many suppliers with only verbal agreement.

[samuils]

When talking about corporations and contracts, few things need to be considered. 1) Avoidance of law suits against them (thus contracts, as a prove of the terms)
2) Corporations when dealing with another entity, have an ongoing relationship (terms), contracts make it easier for both parties, to see the terms and operate under those conditions in long term.
3) Corporations deal with multitude of other entities (subcontractors)
(Continues)

[harleywoolford]

Agree to a large extent but what about national parks?

[RebelRadius]

Are you suggesting that transactions between "people" cannot occur without contract?

People can transact outside of the law, but corporations cannot.
People can voluntarily transact but corporations cannot.

[samuils]

(Continued) Some Corporations deal above a thousand subcontractors. The whole process allows to streamline the process, since you have on hand, a guarantee of what is expected, cost, capacity quality, etc.
4)and finally, contracts are made at the beginning of the process, so both parties can have at hand, expectations, base from which to negotiate, and to see if they want to sign that contract at all, if its beneficial to both parties.Verbally making those agreements is virtually impossible

[RebelRadius]

Individuals can successfully transact outside of man-made law, "non-humans" cannot.

The corporation is not human, it is a "entity" invented by humans as a machine to make money, (a combine harvester). The corporation is not tangible but it is considered as "capital" (a tool of production). Machines are not human but are driven by humans. Who is responsible for drone killings? How many people don’t push the button but are culpable to murder?

[TeaParty]

If conservative voters had a majority vote in, eg, a state, and decided to replace all legislators on education committees and all curriculum creators, teachers and administrators with conservatives, Progressives would think differently about "public" education.

[samuils]

So If a person wants to buy a house, and borrows money from a bank, you see something wrong with that contract? A person goes to employer and sign a workplace contract, there is something wrong with that? A person can enter a contract objectively, by reading it thoroughly. When I rented a place, I asked the owner to send me a copy of the contract, which I read thoroughly at my own pace. I signed it after, finding it to be very reasonable. If you dont like terms in contract dont sign it

[RebelRadius]

Let me put it to you this way. A corporation is an entity, just like the "public", a "society", a "government" and just like a "god".

Imagine the resources required for a single man to take a corporation to court. The man would stand to loose his entire estate, his life's work in legal fee's alone. The corporation would stand to be slightly scratched. And even if the man won, he wouldn't necessarily be paid out straight forwardly. I mean TOO BIG to fail.

[samuils]

Business transaction are not made under any threats what so ever. A paper is used to prove that a contract was made, and to prove that the terms were breached (if they were) Where is the treat?

[samuils]

Corporation isnt a tool, Corporation is a type of a business, meaning it has different rules of operations. Corporation is humans. President, Board of directors, CEO, CFO, Investors, Top managers, Division managers, regional managers, local managers, employees. In small corporations, you have a President, and a CEO. Those behind the Enron, one committed suicide, others involved in jail. Yeah man you are so deep :P

[RebelRadius]

What is the difference between a "robot" or a corporation? They are both non-human tools, driven by humans.
I choose to transact with a human, not an "entity".

Oh, so if Enron is gone, what happened to those behind the steering wheel? Are they driving other combine harvesters elsewhere? Probably have teamed up with other combine harvesters in order to make a HUGE one too big to fail. Governments of course are also corporations and they just hate competition.

[RebelRadius]

It is not an entity or does a piece of paper make it real?

[billjoelnjuilird]

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I would urge you to ask WHO the natural environment is a value to? If it's a value to all of us, then the market will demand its protection. If not, then why should it be protected? Does it have intrinsic value? - how is such a concept possible? Values must be gained and kept by living things for a purpose, and if it has no value /to man/ then urban sprawl is fine. If you are a millionaire and love wildlife, as many do, you can protect it forever!

[kazearaki]

Very deceiving from the start, nothing's private or individual to begin with although something can be private or individual at the end of the day. The question is; how that change occurs? What enables them? Clue: private property has never been part of Liberty to begin with.
A free man has the power over himself but his relationship with those outside of him are governed by more than just himself. Private property is not an innate part of an individual, it's position is outside of a man's self.

[samuils]

Law suits is another reason for contracts. Its for either party to clearly prove who is in the wrong. The rest of what you are saying is a hype of not understanding what corporation is. Corporation isnt a G'd. And corporation can consist out of as few as 2 people.

[adamfitchett]

Who should own the national defence industry Mr Brook? How does "public" ownership of that prevent it from falling into disarray?