A Criticism of Nietzsche's Ubermensch

Nietzsche believed that without a God and objective morality, it was up to human beings to evolve further to strive to become supermen, to become self maters and develop their own code to life. However there are some fundamental issues with Nietzsche’s concept of the Ubermensch. Watch as George and John discuss.

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#nietzsche #ubermensch #philosophy

[PhilosophyVibe]

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[noahhysi]

1. How can an ordinary person know how an Ubermensch would behave if they have never observed one?
Every Ubermensch, almost by definition, would be different from the next. This is because the idea of an Ubermensch involves one inventing one's own way of life and following the path that one creates for oneself. Because of this, we do not need to observe an Ubermensch in action in order to achieve it in ourselves. This very act is contradictory to the term.
This also applies to the idea that we do not know what self-mastery or psychological strength would look like. Nietzsche makes very explicit in his literature that the path to self-mastery and psychological strength does not involve the overcoming of this or that bad human quality that his highlighted by another person, but instead that such a path would involve overcoming one's own specific demons, which are entirely unique to the individual.
Overall, the first criticism of this video assumes that one has to know what the result of self-overcoming (ubermensch) before undergoing this metamorphoses of the spirit is before undergoing said metamorphoses in order for them to be sucessful. This point is highly debatable.
It also assumes that the Ubermensch would have some sort of form or quality that would be represented across the spectrum of real or possible Ubermensches, when almost by definition each Ubermensch would be entirely different.
2. In a world where everyone is trying to achieve or establish their own system of morality and overcome themselves, there will inevitably be clashes and arguments between multiple possible or existing Ubermensches. This would render society unlivable.
This is precisely the type of conflict that Nietzsche was hoping for when he thought up the idea of the Ubermensch. In Nietzsche's world, there is a moral vacuum - an empty space where nothing is good or bad. Instead of accepting Nihilism, we should choose our goals and try to inject them into the moral vacuum so it takes up as much space as possible. Such an injection will compete with others, and such competition may cause death and suffering, but this is neither good nor bad because of said moral vacuum. (I do not agree with this slightly cruel and masochistic idea, if we are arguing about Nietzsche's idea of the Ubermensch it is necessary). This desire to inject one's own morality into the vacuum Nietzsche called the Will to Power, and in the conflict between ideas it would be a battle of Power, not a battle of who is right or wrong, that decides the victor. So, the conflict that the Ubermensch idea creates that you presume invalidates it is precisely what Nietzsche was hoping for, or, in the least, it is what Nietzsche expected to happen. He expects this conflict to happen over and over again in history, with a winning ideology taking it's hold on society, a counterculture being created, the ideology being dethroned, a new one taking it's place, and so on. It happened with Christianity, and it is happening today.
3. This third point Nietzsche understood. Poking holes in this or that religion and proving their foundations shaky is absolutely not the same as invalidating the idea of God in general. What Nietzsche meant when he said "God is dead" is that we have absolutely no way of proving whether or not he exists, and thus God is just another (although powerful on scales of multiple hundreds of centuries) injection into the moral vacuum. So I agree with this point in the video that one should not be swayed from living with a belief in God because religion has proven to be shaky, but I am just saying that it does not invalidate the idea of an Ubermensch, because like choosing to believe in God despite religion, an Ubermensch chooses to beleive in whatever he so pleases. It is just a battle of power.

Again I do not agree with Nietzsche's idea of the Ubermensch, from a moral and philosophical standpoint. In fact while reading Nietzsche's work I find myself disagreeing with him more than I agree with him. But I am simply playing the devil's advocate. Thank you for reading my wall of text if you have gotten to this point.

[michaelfbuckley]

An Ubermensch is an ideal individual. And since individuals are by definition unique, it is clear that no such example of an archetypical Ubermensch would exist. It would be like askings someone to be an individual based on someone else's traits—this is not a form of individuation.

[foryoutube]

this was an amazing intelligent coherent conversation.

[ml]

Great video. Ntz has a special place in my heart, but clearly the ubermensch was too ambitious. In any case, 20-21century analytic philosophy has seen an explosion in classical theism and philosophy of religion more broadly. Turns out the God of Christianity was both the dying and resurrecting Deity for a reason.

[MCJOHNSON]

There is never a final product. The pursuit of ubermensche doesn't simply end one day. Its eternal. And it's important to know that humanity and the earth is just one small subsystem in a much larger force.

[gregoryelion]

Nietchze never intended on everyone being Ubermenschen, he aimed his idea to only the few who were capable of such a characteristic personality. He never claimed that everyone, at some stage would be Ubermensche, but rather that the search for 'God' and the idea outside of the material world was dying, so much so, that he just said He was dead, and further down the line, that He will slowly vanish away from society. Much like how Greek Mythological Gods are no longer considered real things today, but rather stories of meaning. Nietzsche also refers to slave moraility, being the cornerstone of religous faith, also being a type of mindest considered weak/below the Ubermensch. As this type of reality focuses on the afterlife (something that does not exist) and rejects the material world; which is the only thing we have. Thus he speaks to the people of the furture of whom believe God is non-existent, and tells them to forget about what we know about morals, and exist by means of contextual analysis of the environment you have been placed in. Given this is what he meant, you can see how it seems very unlikey that so many people will have such characteristics and intelligence to do such.
Thankfully, Nietsche was not advocating this to everyone, but merely speaking to the people who desire to become.

[mertcelen]

Your second counter argument doesnt make sense. What if everybody was the Overman ? The answer is the herd can never be the overnman. There will always be the herd. Saying that everybody can be the Overnman goes directly against the idea of the Overnman to begin with. Its like saying what if trees can fly.

[jimt]

Arguing that the Ubermensch would not work if everyone were one is not really a valid argument as Nietzsche did not believe in a society of total equality. In "thus spoke Zarathustra" it seems that the superhuman is a trait meant for a select few individuals and the "herd" are not capable of achieving such a state.

[jarebearart]

Everything I've read on nietzsche, makes him seem pretty stupid. To him everything is will-to-power but the whole of human experience isn't experienced by the powerful. So how could everything be Will-to-power?

[m.kurbah]

I think what Nietzsche is suggesting is not a revaluation of values but to rediscover morality.

[vicvinegar]

God was killed culturally. Your personal beliefs on god’s existence is irrelevant. Culturally, god is no longer the centerpiece of morality. In his place a void.

[stoic_ape]

I always watch things in support in defence and picking the best aspects of the Ubermensch nice to watch something that contradicts oneself every now and then and furthermore coherentky interpreting it and taking away from it

[ChrisHallBoxCreative]

This was great! Really broke down the flaws in his philosophy

[BlackRose.]

Christian morality was more theorised than practiced.
I expect ubermensch to more practise it. An animal cant contain or control sins.
A buddhist striving for enlightenment is more like it.

[hashimmajid]

I find this one is an awesome video, it points out everything that is missing in Nietzsche works, here is where Carl Jung comes in, there is a concept that is called the Architypes, in simple term, the Architypes is like the hidden god in a person subconscious, it is a universal pattern of behaviors that was created as the result of human getting and living together, ever since the first civilization was born, or even ever since the first small tribe of people gathered or lived together, architypes were born. It is what drives you through life, emotionally without understanding without any logic it is what gives you life purpose, when Nietzsche described as the Ubermensch is a psychological advanced human being, not physical meaning not related to the domination of the outside world, Carl Jung studied the human history and everything even alchemy, human interaction what made the architypes, what made civilization, it's like chemical reaction, the sole purpose of the architype is for the harmony, survival and flourishment of the human race against this cruel dark world.

Ubermensch is being the most advanced version of yourself, meaning reaching your full psychological potentials i.e. reviving your hidden architype that you inherit from your ancestors.

kindly note that not all human beings have the time and luxury of studying history, both Nietzsche and Jung and connecting the dots to understand human nature, that's why where religion comes in place, it's much easier to understand and much simpler to follow that's why to Nietzsche, a true Christian believer is far better then a nihilistic scientist, when he declared god is dead he was afraid of this wave of Nihilism that will leads to totalitarian countries like Hitler did, that will leads to human destruction. that's what he predicted and that's why they call him the prophet. the Ubermensch is the antidot of nihilism...

Morality was built as a result of some architypes that where more needed at some point and time in human history, or as some other factors, but morality is evolving and the human history is a living proof of this (how slavery was banished, cause it's more effective for humanity to live in harmony and survive in this world)

if a human become an ubermensch, he will not become an alien who wants to conquer the world, he will still be a human with basic human instincts (such as human is a social creature by nature) will still exist.

if I am missing something let me know, please.

[TheCocoaisCongealed]

These criticisms aren't valid. The Overman is an idealized type in contrast to The Last Man and Nietzsche very thoroughly does outline such an idealized, heroic figure in detail, especially in Thus Spake Zarathustra. Now, the vagueness (general-ness) of the Overman is the consequence of the Overman being necessarily different from all other types of people, including other Overmen.
Nietzsche was a very fervent advocate of the importance of art as a means of directing reality and beautifying/ordering it. The Overman, or Overmen, can be discovered through great works of fiction. Take for example the White Whistles in Made in Abyss, who all are extremely different, but all possess certain general qualities, such as the desire towards the discovery and honest depiction of the reality of the Abyss, the embracement of suffering, the obsessive pursuit of mastery, and the capacity to make sacrifices for higher purposes.
Men are not the Overmen Nietzsche envisions, not necessarily even because of a lack of *evolution* on the part of the genetic character of man, but because of humanity not being in the position to manifest the Overman. Nietzsche was an elitist. In Thus Spake Zarathustra, he makes it very clear that he believed only a very select few could become Overmen, and that the purpose of humanity was the for the manifestation of such individuals. Nietzsche is NOT advocating a single moral framework for everyone known as the *Overman*.
Now, there is a lot I could say about why the critique against Nietzsche on his "God is Dead" remarks is misunderstood but it's a whole bag of worms, so I'm going to be very quick and clumsy about it. Nietzsche understood metaphor and valued certain aspects of metaphor in religions, especially pagan religions but even in Christianity. He had criticisms of the prevailing theological *true world* theories, which were especially meaningful since even though as, say, for example, a Christian, you could disregard the literal truth being expressed by the Bible, people didn't do that. People who identify as Christian today STILL don't do that. Once people realize the Bible isn't literally true, he predicted (and he was right) that people would discard the whole of Christianity. He didn't believe this was a good thing but believed it to be a necessary step towards the progression of humanity since he had strong criticisms against the moral (metaphorical) substance of Christianity.

[soham]

First point : how does Nietzsche know about ubermensch?
Maybe ubermensch is like a idea that he had about higher human rather than actually one existing before or tat that time. I mean he hasn't defined ubermensch clearly meaning Nietzsche also didn't know much about it, which just seems right with your argument as well. Ubermensch is abstract like a conjecture in mathematics yet to be proven.

Second point about sync morality is good, but assuming all humans being able to become ubermensch seems too much and also not likely, ubermensch seems more like one man concept and rest of humanity will follow his new morals.

[marcpadilla]

Ubermensch is a brilliant concept. For example take an individual who has survived the most harrowing experiences in their lives on the merits of acknowledging and employing good and evil to overcome whatever obstacles were in their way. No God, no devil, just will to power and an acheived balance of power between individuals, states, and nations. A purely rational approach to life and death and a firm understanding of success and failure as intrinsically and compromisingly natural. More flexible when we're more equal as nature demands not as religion or government artificially imposes on us.

[jlupus]

I thought the Superman would be able to see objective moral facts, not just make them up out of nothing.

Also, no actual holes have been poked in the Bible, that still has yet to be done. What are you referring to?