What Is Historic Premillennialism? - Bryan Chapell

[hankhooper]

He starts by saying this is an old view...one mark in its favor. 🙂

[seth]

Excellent. The view needs to be taught more.

[bobg]

Best explanation of this I've heard in a long time.
I am a former dispensationalist, now historicist.
My view of the involvement of Israel is simple. We are Israel, full stop period. When the apostles set out on their missionary journeys they went into the areas where the northern tribes of Israel were taken into captivity. As prophesied, Ephraim became the father of many nations. And the fruits of the apostles' work was the fulfillment of prophesies bringing all the tribes back onto the vine that we call Israel.

[matthartley]

I'd like to see the whole lecture if you could direct me to it.

[jsong]

As a former dispensationalist, I wonder what historic premillennialism’s view of Paul’s mystery (Ephesians 3:1-6) is.

[fesalvifica]

Let me ask you a question Brother, C. H. Spurgeon was a historic premillennialism? I was taught at first the doctrine of premillennialism dispensencionalism, then a went to a Presbyterian Church that teaches Amillenialism. But every time a read my Bible I can not see this teaching, so I was searching for this view I believe is more right to the Bible. So I found this video on YouTube. By the way I'm a Brazilian brother.

[gordoncrawley]

Interesting subject for sure, but our focus should be more toward examining our own lives, to be growing in the faith, and to be sharing the Gospel. None of us is promised tomorrow, so use every day you have to be closer to the Lord and working in his field. Eschatology does not save, but the Gospel does. Romans1:16

[rebeccaharp]

Sir, in question of Romans 9 and 11, are we not to pull into our understanding of...all Israel will be saved... all of the scriptures that blend the born again Jews and Gentiles together into one body. We do that on other topics, as, all the scriptures on marriage or all the scriptures on baptism etc... I have been listening to Walter Martin, you and others and want to understand why 9 and 11 are separated from the rest of the subject. Very sincerely, Rebecca

[flamingrobin]

its clear through multiple verses and patterns types and shadows that the rapture is a mystery and some people will escape the tribulation. it is possible for a pre trib rapture to be true while also some believers go through the tribulation. The wise and foolish virgins being a primary pattern and the letters to the churches in revelation also promise escape to one church. Also we are told that we should pray that we are worthy to

[Spillers]

Historic Premil seems close to dispensationalism but is far less dogmatic on eschatology.

[angelovillaruz]

the same view that I hold. But can I be consistent in holding to both Covenant Theology and historic Premillennialism? is the book the case for Historic premillennialism a sound one for this?

[rogermetzger]

You make a distinction between the rapture (as held by virtually all eachatological schools of thought) as distinct from a “secret rapture”.

I’m not uncomfortable with the term “rapture” when used to refer to believers being “caught up” (I Thessalonians 4:17) but I mostly avoid using that word because it is so widely associated with dispensationalist-futurist eschatology. I’d be more inclined to make the distinction as “the rescue of believers” as contrasted with a “pre-tribulation rapture”. I’m a premillennialist but neither a dispensationalist nor a pre-tribulationalist.

As I understand the view of Hal Lindsey in the Late Great Planet Earth, for example, Jesus isn’t represented as returning to rescue his people. I understood the timeline of that book as being that Jesus won’t return until some time AFTER the rescue of his people. (If I still have the book, it’s packed away in a box we haven’t opened since our last move.)

Your chart seems to indicate that at least one version of historical premillennialism anticipates the rapture as occurring after the second coming. Do I understand that correctly? Or is the proximity of those two things on the chart intended to represent two aspects of the same event, i.e. is the chart intended to mean that the rapture occurs at the same time as the second coming? Which of those two more closely represents your understanding? Either way, can you give us the name of any (other?) historical premillennialists who have taught that the rapture (or rescue) will occur after the second coming?

Admittedly, most of the people I have asked this next question have only been followers of dispensationalist-futurist teachers - not theologians in their own right - but I’ve asked several people over the last 45 years whether they are acquainted with a Bible text that reads they lived in reigned with Christ a thousand years upon the earth”.

Every one I’ve asked so far has affirmed that they were acquainted with such a text.

Hmmm. The concept of a millennial reign of Jesus on Earth is so ubiquitous, hardly anyone realizes that phrase, “upon the earth”, isn’t mentioned in the verses that describe the millennial reign. Which raises this question: Which historical premillennialist theologians whose writings you have studied specify a) a millennial reign on Earth or b) a millennial reign in heaven? And what aspect(s) of their theology support(s) their concept of where “they” (believers?) will live and reign with Jesus for a thousand years?

If Revelation 20 verses 7 through 10 are taken to refer to a time after (or at the close of) the millennium, do the historical premillennialists whose writings you have studied consider that as describing Armageddon? Do you know of historical premillennialist who expect (or have expected) Armageddon to occur before the second coming of Jesus and to be interrupted by his return in glory?

It seems to me that the concept that the church replaced Israel as the object of the Lord’s supreme regard was developed in Rome in an attempt to accommodate the profound hatred by the citizens of the Roman Empire (perhaps the officers of the empire in particular) toward the Hebrew people.

If people who are gentiles according to the flesh are “ingrafted”, do we thus become part of the olive tree? And why does Paul use that phrase at all, “gentiles according to the flesh”? Could it be because there is a sense in which a person who is a gentile accordion to the flesh, after being ingrafted, is no longer a gentile in the real sense? Spiritual realities are more real than physical realities because spiritual realities are eternal while physical realities are (at least potentially) temporary.

I’m sympathetic with the person who has already left a comment about the olive tree in Romans 11 being a reference to Jesus (rather than to Israel) but, either way, it seems to me that John Darby had to essentially ignore Romans 11 in order to postulate that the church DID replace Israel - BUT ONLY TEMPORARILY.

I don’t subscribe to either premise.

If you think there is “a separate plan for ethnic Israel”, do you subscribe to the doctrine that ethnic Israel will reign on Earth during the millennium while Christians are in heaven during the millennium?

The problem with saying that we believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible is that every form of eschatology I have investigated so far interprets some passages literally and not other passages. If you are Christ’s, you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. Really? Literally? To take that literally undermines some of the most popular eschatology extant in the twenty-first century.

Yes, not everyone reads the book of Revelation chronologically. There are some parts of scripture I’d have to ignore (or treat as allegorical) to do that AND I’d have to ignore some of the principles of Bible interpretation that I consider both biblical and important.

[capncrunch]

3:41 “all the views believe that God comes and rescues his people out of trouble on the earth” no sir, post millennialists do not believe that

[csdr]

Premil contradicts the condition for Christ's coming out from heaven to go down to earth. The condition is that all his enemies, with death as the last enemy, must be destroyed or made a footstool for his feet, before his second coming.

Acts 3:21 " Heaven must receive him UNTIL the time comes for God to RESTORE everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

Clearly the risen Christ WILL REMAIN bodily in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything.
But what is the restoration of everything by God? Everything is restored when all of Christ's enemies are made his footstool or destroyed (1 Cor. 15:24-27). The last enemy is death. Death is destroyed or made his footstool at the resurrection of the dead and the transformation of the living to an immortal life, when no one will die ever again, thus, completing the defeat of death. All the resurrected persons including the transformed living persons will immediately be judged on Christ return. Thus, his second coming (coming down to earth from his heavenly throne) will happen after he orders the general resurrection of the dead with a loud voice and the transformation of those who are still living. Jesus will come down from heaven to meet those resurrected believers and the transformed living believers in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
).

1 Cor. 15:24-27
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

[BenHuntDrums]

Does anybody know what sermon this is from?

[tentmaker]

Do you believe in animal sacrifices in the future as per Zechariah 14:16? Or are these spiritual sacrifices of praise and prayer as the new testament teaches? What do you believe about the abomination of Desolation in Matt 24:15? future or past? Literal temple in jerusalem or temple of "the church"? [how can a temple built by antichrists be considered temple of God?]

[rlVan-mcwq]

My only disagreement is that this was not the dominant view throughout history. From my research, it is.

[.gpa]

I think the rapture ocurrs after the tribulation, after the millennium.

[SpotterVideo]

How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of the judgment of the living, in Matthew 25:31-46?

The fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.
Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

The judgment of the dead is at the end of Revelation 20.
Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing, in 2 Timothy 4:1.
The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:15-18, which proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Paul has revealed above the true timeline of Revelation chapter 20.

The "first resurrection" in Revelation chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation chapter 11.

.

[waltermcfarland]

Any view that puts apostasy and Great Tribulation at the end of history cannot be true because it denies the specific words of Christ in Matthew 24:10-21. After exhorting the Christians to flee from Jerusalem at the approach of the Roman army (Lk 21:20), Jesus said "THEN there will be a Great Tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall" (Mt 24:21).


That is obviously referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 a.d., an historical fact recorded by Josephus. Notice how Jesus specified that there would never be a greater tribulation in the future. So anybody who claims that the Great Tribulation is in OUR future contradicts Jesus' specific words and makes Him either deceived or deceiver.


The specific question Christ was answering was when will the stones of HEROD's temple be torn down, thus signifying the end of the Old Testament age. It has nothing to do with the 2nd Coming. Mt 24:30, commonly mistaken as describing the 2nd Coming is a direct quote from Daniel's description of the ASCENSION in Dan 7:13.