Historic Premillennialism vs Dispensational Pre-Mil

The main differences:
Pre-Trib Rapture vs Post Trib Rapture.
Different view of the Church vs Israel.
Rebuilt temple w/sacrifices vs no sacrifices.
Is the Kingdom completely future or are we living in the initial phase of it?
Is the Kingdom just for the Jews or for the church as well?
A 7-year tribulation vs a 42 Month "Great Tribulation" only.

The Bible clearly teaches Premillennialism, Jesus returns in Matthew 24, the Kingdom is set up in Matthew 25. Also in the Book of Revelation Jesus returns in chapter 19, and the Kingdom is set up in chapter 20. Therefore in both cases Jesus returns Pre (before) the Millennium (1,000 year Kingdom on the earth).

#eschatology #rapture #endtimes

[eliarr]

Awesome video. Thank you for clarifying both positions without mocking either. I was very confused coming in but this video really helps

[Godsglory]

Aaah, you'll get there one day, lol, Historic pre-millenialism makes more and more sense as you move along. Especially as you continue to study the opposing views. I have graduated from Dispy Pre-mill, to Amill, and then now I've finally landed on the solid rock of Historic pre-millenialism. I doubt I ever accept Post-mill, theres way too many sleeves on that jacket. It's been a long road but I believe I've found the end time understanding I've been searching for. If it was good enough for the first 300 years of church history, it's good enough for me.

[genekrobel]

Great Video! God bless so much for sharing this. It really helped and very clear!

[brianschmidt]

I am really glad I found this video. Your view at the end times is almost identical to mine. Historical Pre millennialism seems to have disappeared with everyone, either teaching covenant theology or dispensationalism. Both have problems. Please continue explaining why you hold to this view, as most pastors seem to be either dispensationalist or covenant theology.

[crownsoutreach]

I appreciate your video. When the Scripture is read simply for what it says, without an intervening theology to re-arrange its references, you end up with premill- pretrib-. The Bible prophesies more about this time than any other in history.

[calebstewart]

Also there's a pre wrath view of historic premil.

[Christ-Kingofkings-Lordoflords]

Look into partial preterism, post mill. After examining scripture and history for years and years and looking into every viewpoint that is the only one that fits to me. Love my brothers and sisters in every camp tho

[docbrown]

What is the difference between historic pre-mil, post mil, and amil. Honestly they all sound the same when you hear people explain (when they hold that view). Dispensational nonsense is just really bad eisegeais.

[danaleanne]

John Nelson Darby started teaching Dispensation premillennialism in the 1800 th century .It is not biblical . When Yeshua (Jesus) comes back, it's over. He's not coming back twice. The Darby family owned Leap Castle (look it up) His family perform seances there and they found dozens of skeletons (human sacrifices) This is the family that gave you dispensation premillennialism theology. Please by all means check out what I'm saying

[RepentNBelieveNJesus]

Thanks for the video. Still learning myself. Keep getting tossed around on this stuff. Pray for understanding for all of us please

[SoldierofChrist]

Very balanced approach. I, myself, am a reformed Presbyterian in which I am Calvinist and agree with covenant theology. However, I hold to dispensational premillennialism/pre-trib.

[FrugalBrotherDoug]

The only objection I have with this video is that there are many flavors of PMD and as I was taught it there were NOT two methods of salvation but only one; justification by faith. It was the hyper-dispensationalist who believed the Israel was saved in a different way than the church. Better to read old books about PMD for a better understanding. Leave behind the left behind series. Simple decision matrix: if you understand the rapture as revealed in Scripture, you are PMD. Now go spend the Gospel and watch for the Lord's return.

[nebucamv]

I'm a Pre-Mill believing in rapture before tribulation. Is that an own category? I don't know. 😂

[tentmaker]

Do you believe in animal sacrifices in the future as per Zechariah 14:16? Or are these spiritual sacrifices of praise and prayer as the new testament teaches? What do you believe about the abomination of Desolation in Matt 24:15? future or past? Literal temple in jerusalem or temple of "the church"? [how can a temple built by antichrists be considered temple of God?]

[BirdieSenpai]

I'm sort of half and half, myself. I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, but I reject Zionism and believe that Israel has always been Abraham's spiritual descendants (those of faith in the Trinity God) rather than biological descendants, so I don't distinguish between the church and Israel, personally. As a Calvinist, I also believe that the faith Abraham's spiritual descendants are blessed by grace with that faith, with God accomplishing everything for salvation in His predestined individuals He chose to have mercy on.

[RealRadNek]

Very interesting, thanks. Would love to here why you would not take Matt 24, Luke 21, 1 Thes 4:13-5:13, & 2 Thes 2:1-12 literally as a pre-trib position seems to ignore the literal context. Let me explain. My own evolving on this issue starts back in the 1970's and the movie "Thief in the Night" and "Late Great Planet Earth." Then I spent several years in the Ammellinial camp but my conviction from scripture has brought me back to a post-trib premill view. It's interesting that over the last few centuries the church in America has perfected the pre-trib rapture of the church as I learned growing up. This view is new to the church historically and has its root in the theology of a Bible teacher in the 19th century named John Nelson Darby. Most in the American church today just grow up assuming this is Biblical truth rooted in the teaching of the apostles. Historically, the early church fathers taught forms of post-trib premillennialism and then by the 5th century Augustine popularized an Amillennial view. My conviction is that we should take the scripture literally in all accounts where context is clear. This is critical to a correct understanding. In time, I have come to see that the pre-trib rapture of the church is very difficult to see in scripture and one must do what I call exegetical gymnastics to stretch to come to that conclusion. Also the Amellinial view (with it's kissing cousin Post-Millennialism) tends to ignore some pretty clear contextual verses that are to be taken literally like the passages mentioned above. No doubt the rapture is going to happen (harpodzo in Greek and rapio in latin which is a latin translation from harpozo meaning to be caught up). You would have to ignore what Pauil said to the Thessalonian church to not believe in a rapture of the church but the question is when. You can see the full scriptural context in 1 Thes 4:13-5:11 and 2 Thes 2:1-12 regarding the rapture. Context: The Church at Thessalonica had false teachers who were upsetting the church by saying that they had missed the second coming of Christ. This caused much worry in the church not only for themselves who were alive but for their loved ones who had died in Christ. You can see this issue start to develop in 1 Thes 4:13-15 and then Paul really hammers it home in 2 Thes 2:1-2 telling them not to be upset by anyone telling you the day of the Lord has already come. Then in 1 Thes 4:16-18, Paul describes the dead in Christ rising first, then those in Christ still alive will be raptured (harpozowed) to meet Christ in the air. So, when does this take place? If you look at the context of this passage, Paul is comforting the church telling them HOW these events will unfold so they are not discouraged by these false teachers. He goes on to say in 1 Thes 3:1-3 that for the NON-believer Jesus' coming will be a huge surprise for them, like a thief in the night. But for the believer, it will not be a surprise because we are "children of the light." In other words, God has enlightened us to understand what is coming at the end of times so that we will be prepared to get out of the way of God's coming wrath. Question: If the Thessalonian believers were going to be raptured out of the tribulation, why would Paul tell them that they will not be shocked at Christ's second coming like NON-believers will be? The answer is actually found in 2 Thes 2:1-12. Context: After Paul writes 1 Thessalonians, it still does not clear up the confusion in the church and apparently these false teachers did not give up easy so Paul writes very explicitly in the second letter. In 2 Thes 2:1 Paul gets specific concerning Christ's second coming and the rapture or as Paul says it here, our "...being gathered to Him..." He goes on to tell the Thessalonian believers WHAT they will SEE with their own eyes BEFORE Jesus comes back. This is literal, my Amillenial and Postmill brothers and sisters. This was the lynch pin that moved me out of the Amellinial camp. Paul says believers will see the tribulation period, "...the rebellion comes first..." as Paul puts it, and the antichrist is revealed who will be exalted above all else, or as Paul puts it, "...the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition..." QUESTION: If believers will be raptured out of the tribulation, why would Paul warn believers that they will see these very specific tribulation events happen so get ready for it so you can get out of the way of the wrath of God being poured out on all ungodliness? In fact, Jesus told us that the tribulation is limited for our sake... "“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened." (Matt 24:22) Even in Matt 24, Jesus never tells his followers that they will be raptured out of the tribulation. In fact Jesus tells us in Matt 24 that WHEN we see the abomination that causes desolation spoken about by Daniel, we are to head for the hills and don't go back home. My Amellinial & Postmill brothers ignore that all together. For my premill brothers, why wouldn't Jesus tell us, "Don't worry about it cause I will rapture you out before the tribulation" if we were not going to go through it. Instead Jesus tells us how to get prepared for it and what to do about it. The reality for me today is I am praying for pre-trib but I am preparing and warning anyone who will listen, get prepared. Better to be safe than sorry when Jesus himself has already warned us. Have a plan when all this stuff starts hitting the fan that the scriptures warn us about. My Ammell and Postmill brothers and sister seem to carry a que sera sera attitude about the end of times. My pre-trib premil brothers and sisters seem to say, don't worry about it, it's really fun to study it, but you won't be around so don't worry. But a literal reading of the scripture would lead us to not be asleep but be children of the light ready for the time when we will need to get out of the way of the wrath of God so it will fall where it belongs. When you see the abomination that causes desolation take place that Jesus warned us very clearly about, and a rebuilt temple because of wayward Jews who do not understand about Jesus' final atonement and they try to force a chip in your hand before you can buy any food, come awake and get prepared. Can you anwser those specific questions for me? Maranatha!

[rlh]

There is probably no other point of disagreement between Christians other than Calvinism vs Arminianism that Christians get uglier with one another about than eschatology. A quick search of YouTube will show almost all sides calling the others heretics. 🙄 If I'm being completely honest, however, I see the charge of heresy far more from one side in each of those debates. I have even seen one such comment under this video.

You and I are largely in agreement on how we see things. If I'm not mistaken, the view is what MacArthur calls "leaky Dispensationalism."

You mention that Disoensationalism teach two completely different methods of redemption. I have never come across that view in any Dispensational church I have attended, but I often hear that accusation. What I have encountered lines up with what The Gospel Coalition says about it: "First, while affirming that salvation has always been by grace through faith alone, Dispensationalism teaches that God has worked in different ways in different eras of history." Or, as another author put it, "Salvation, whether in the Old or the New Testament, is always by grace through faith. The difference then between Old Testament Jews who never had a chance to hear the gospel and New Testament believers is that the content of faith varies depending on the dispensation within which one is in."

By the way, this is a good, charitable article on Dispensationalism vs Covenant Theology:

[AgeDeo]

May we allow Scripture to speak for itself and form our system of belief. Not the other way around. Sadly, the majority in the church today practice the latter over the former. Thus, they miss out on very precious truths that have already been revealed to us by God in His Word through the Holy Spirit. Such a mindset has resulted to much impotence in the Christian church that should be having a more positive influence on the world today. Dispensationalism has limited our understanding of Scripture to the literal. Even Dispensationalist preachers themselves also do not interpret all Scripture literally. That is because not all literary genre can be interpreted that way, and there are different genres in God's Word. One who confines himself to a single approach to studying Scripture has already made his first wrong step that increases as he continues in that path.
Indeed ethnic Israel has a specific role to carry out in God's sovereign redemptive plan. And their rejection of Jesus Christ was part of it, that brought the Gospel to us. Thus, we are to be humbled and grateful to God. But Christ Himself said that "The Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation, producing the fruit of it." (Matt 21:43) Such was the mystery revealed to the Apostle Paul. For God's ultimate plan is not for the salvation and redemption of the Jews alone but for the Gentiles and His entire creation! For there is only one tree and one root who is God. The natural branches is ethnic Israel. Some were broken off because of unbelief so we, Gentiles might be grafted in. Thus, the Apostle Paul states that all of us are one in Christ (Gal. 3:28). This simply supports his theological presentation in Romans as to how and when Abraham was declared righteous, which was prior to his circumcision (ergo as a Gentile) that is but a sign of his faith in God.
Hebrews notes Abel, Enoch, Noah, etc. (non-Jews, ergo, Gentiles too but who have the faith as Abraham's) as partakers of what we have in Christ by faith. Indeed God is not through with Israel as with the other nations. Thus, may we all the more carry out the Great Commission. And as we do so, let us focus more on the One True Israel of God, the Lord Jesus (Matt. 2:13-14) who tore down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile because God's goal is to make us, "one new man" in Christ (Eph. 2:14). Please notice too that the Lord Jesus has only one bride, not two. I will also not postpone Christ's kingship and rule as Scripture declares it (Dan. 7:13-14, Matt. 28:18 & ff, Lk. 11:17-20) I recognize His kingship and rule here and now because of three reasons: 1) God said it, 2) it was the secret to the success of the early church, and 3) it is what our world needs today. So let's do our part in this. Thank you.

[rogermetzger]

During the same century that Whitefield and the Wesely brothers preached in the North American colonies, congregationalist preacher, Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758) promoted post-millennialism, the doctrine that Jesus would return to Earth AFTER a thousand years of peace and increasing prosperity, during which time, the preaching of the gospel would result in all or nearly all of the governments and other major institutions on Earth adopting Christian principles. Post-millennialism remained the prominent eschatology in the United States during the last part of the eighteenth and all of the nineteenth century. While I don’t subscribe to Edwards’ post-millennial eschatology, the idea that Jesus would return only after a majority (or supermajority) of Earth’s population were Christians motivated the creation of Bible societies and much of the vast missionary work of the nineteenth century.

Beginning about 1818, the entrenched post-millennialism was challenged, first by a baptist farmer in New York state and then, gradually over the next 25 years, by more and more people including (more or less in the order in which they began promoting historicist premillennialism) Joshua V. Himes (Christian Connexion), Josiah Litch (methodist), Charles Fitch (congregationalist), Apollos Hale (methodist) and then scores of other methodists and baptists plus some presbyterians, episcopalians, Lutherns and quakers.

As noted above, the nineteenth century emphasis in the United States on the pre-millennial return of Jesus was from the historicist perspective. During that same century, however, a very different form of pre-millennialism was being developed in Ireland from the futurist perspective - i.e. from the perspective that everything in the book of Revelation after the first three chapters should be considered to be prophecies about future events, not merely future from the perspective of the apostle, John, but from the perspective of the nineteenth century as well. The futurist perspective doesn’t seem to have been accepted by any protestants in the United States until after the War Between the States and it wasn’t popularized until after the publication of the Scofield Study Bible in 1909.

There are still historicist pre-millennialists today including members of the Advent Christian Church who, like their nineteenth century counterparts, expect Jesus to return to resurrect the people who have died in faith, cause them and living believers to be “caught up” to meet him in the air, cleanse the earth with fire and then redeposit believers back onto the surface of the earth to begin the millennial reign.

The Seventh-day Adventist perspective is similar in the sense of being based on the historicist method of Bible interpretation but differs from the Advent Christian Church perspective because, if John 14:2 & 3, Corinthians 15:51-54 and I Thessalonians 4:13-18 (posted below for your convenience) are taken literally and are all considered to be descriptions of the same event, believers will go with Jesus at the beginning of the millennium to the mansions he has gone to prepare. This perspective anticipates the holy city, new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven at the close of the millennium, the followers of Satan attacking the city and fire completely destroying him and his followers, after which God will re-create our planet and it will then become the eternal home of the saved (people who have been justified, sanctified and glorified).

I reject both the futurist method and the dispensationalism upon which the eschatology of John Darby, Cyrus Scofield and Hal Lindsey is based. I agree with much of the eschatology of the majority of Seventh-day Adventist theologians but I disagree with some of the doctrines that are taught by some adventist laity.


John 14:2 & 3 - In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I Corinthians 15:51-54 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

I Thessalonians 4:13-18 - But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[AgeDeo]

When does Matthew 21:43 happen then? Also, Jesus coming twice is already unscriptural because there is only one Second Coming. There is no Third Coming of Jesus Christ.