Mormon Bible Scholar - Dan McClellan Pt. 1 | Ep. 1801

Join me as we delve into the fascinating journey of Dan McClellan, who revolutionized biblical scholarship on TikTok. With over 600k followers, he democratized access to biblical knowledge, showcasing his deep background in Jewish and Bible studies. From his unique mission experiences in Uruguay to his thought-provoking discussions on homosexuality and creation accounts in the Bible, Dan's insights captivate.

Born agnostic, his conversion to Mormonism took a more social and emotional route than intellectual. He's an active church member, even as he navigates complex topics. Armed with degrees from BYU and Oxford, his scholarship journey encompassed questioning traditional beliefs about historical accuracy, leading him to prioritize data over dogma.

His TikTok journey balances his roles as a church employee and a respected scholar, bridging the gap between academia and the public. He explores intriguing topics like God having a wife and homosexuality in the Bible, backed by meticulous research. Don't miss Dan's upcoming book that promises to dive deeper into these compelling issues. This interview is a stimulating exploration of faith, data-driven analysis, and respectful dialogue.

Chapters
00:00:00 Intro
00:09:35 Dan’s Mormon story begins
00:35:20 Back to his Mormon story
00:54:00 Community is a fundamental part of religious identity
01:06:00 Mission to Uruguay
01:29:45 Early issues or topics in Bible study
01:49:15 Ancient near eastern studies,
01:54:10 Overview of Bible Historical Criticism
02:22:45 His interest and mindset in undergrad and grad school
02:51:00 BYU and Grad School, future career goals after graduation
02:59:00 Family experiences while he got his degree at Oxford, wife and kid
03:12:10 The historical accident of the King James Bible
03:20:44 Positive and Negative of working for the LDS Church
03:34:00 Becoming a church employee who started a TikTok on Bible scholarship
03:55:50 Top five most improbable
04:21:30 Discussing Dan’s Mormonism and what he teaches
04:32:00 Upcoming book by Dan McClellan

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[maklelan]

Just FYI, when I say in the interview that someone isn’t necessarily “irrational” for believing the BoM is historical, I had “delusional” in my head, but “irrational” came out. I don’t think I’d stand by saying someone isn’t being irrational (everyone is irrational about things from time to time), but I’d stand by saying they aren’t being delusional.

[jq_pilot]

Dan’s the best. I am in a mixed-faith marriage, and we disagree on how to raise the kids. Once during an argument, I realized that although I hate the institutional LDS church, if my kids grew up to be like Dan, I’d have no complaints. None. He calls out toxic doctrines and practices, and he knows the history problems and doesn’t attempt apologetics… he goes in with his eyes open and takes the good and rejects the bad. And he’s done so his entire lifecycle that I’ve known him. Knowing him has given me peace, and that peace gave me space to be able to heal in many ways. What’s more Christlike than handing out peace, protecting marginalized communities, calling out religious hypocrisy, and healing people’s damaged souls?

[ChickenScissors]

As someone who's now a post mormon married to a prog-mo where we both were tbms when we married - Dan's work has brought so much healing to me. To know that I'm not crazy for seeing inconsistencies and being bothered by them

But this interview in particular brought another layer of healing in being able to accept the faith that others have, where before I just couldn't not look down on them.

"If they actually accept the Bible's definition of faith, then they should be happy to believe despite the data" is excellent framing that softened my heart

[hefeweizen]

I'll join the chorus in expressing my appreciation of a terrific interview. I'm an ex-Lutheran (Missouri Synod) who deconverted in my teens for intellectual reasons but found it difficult emotionally, so I can understand why thoughtful Mormons might choose to remain in the church. If I were a betting man, I would predict that Dan will eventually leave the church when the cognitive dissonance becomes too great, but I completely understand why this might not ever happen, or why it may take a long time until it does happen.

Incidentally, here's one of the things that contributed to my own apostasy: A very smart Mormon kid moved into my neighborhood. We bonded over a shared love of debate, and one of our topics, naturally enough, was religion. I argued in favor of my Lutheranism, and he in favor of LDS doctrine, and a turning point for me was when I realized that the arguments I was presenting against his faith could, with a few tweaks, be deployed with equal effect against my own. That gave me pause, and it helped to instill in me a habit of questioning my own beliefs with the same vigor that I would apply to others'. That habit has served me very well.

[torreyintahoe]

The best thing about Dan is that when you watch his videos you really don't know what his beliefs are. He's like a biblical detective. Just the facts.

[Scarletlime]

Dan is my favorite scholar. I’ve left the church and honestly don’t judge why he stays in it/ but he has helped me navigate so much of religion in general since leaving the church and finding peace in deconstructing without fear or shame. Also two children who are gay/ and I love he supports that it undeniably

[runwillt]

We've all been waiting for this podcast for 2 years and it did not disappoint one bit, thanks to John's amazing interview skills to probe out the right questions at the right time and for Dan's ability to respond clearly and directly. Bravo to both of you in coming together to enhance all of us whose lives are intertwined in Mormonism.

[phoenixrising]

About an hour in and fascinated. Was not familiar with Dan before this but have now subscribed to his channel.

I'm fascinated by how many converts, especially men, I've known personally or heard on things like podcasts talk about how they instantly felt welcomed and a part of the community and they still have warm feelings for the LDS community, even if they've left. I'm a bit puzzled by this. I, who was born into the church, have never felt welcome or accepted, and have been hugely frustrated by the church my whole life, and I'm not alone in that. Few of the people I grew up with have remained in the church, especially the women. Of all the girls I grew up with, as far as I know, I'm the only one still in the church, and I'm rather hostilely in at this point.

From the comments I'm gathering Dan is knowledgeable and analytical about the scriptures, so looking forward to the rest of this and his own podcasts. Interested in his perspective on staying active in light of multiple things. I've noticed in other interviews that men coming out of the church or contemplating leaving, or just questioning, seem to retain positive feelings for the LDS community more than their wives. So am interested to see Dan's take on this and how that fits.

Love it when you have still active members on. I notice there are always some snarky comments about that but I find it interesting and helpful. There really is nowhere else to go if you're still in the church and want to actually discuss things in any sort of rational, analytical way beyond the usual cliches. I get tired of getting nearly stoned in Relief Society every time I open my mouth. I appreciate your being respectful to everyone, in or out of the church. Wish everyone on both sides was doing that. I also like that you let people tell their stories. That's a bit of a lost art any more. There's a lot more to conducting good interviews than people realize.

[Liz-hrhf]

Love Dan! His honesty and thoughtful scholarship is a breath of fresh air. Thank you John for this amazing interview. 💗

[jasonwelle]

Really appreciated this interview. I've been following Dan on the clock app for a long time now, and I'm impressed at how diverse his audience is--Mormons, Catholic and Protestant Christians, Jews, and more. And I appreciated that you interviewed an active member. You've often said that your goal is not to attack the LDS Church but to inform consent, and this is a good example.

[ericreed]

Happy to hear Dan stay true to Data over Dogma, i.e. intellectual honesty.

[QuinnPrice]

I love Dan's insights. And if he's still a Mormon, he's a human who is dealing with the emotional, family, and related issues that come with change.

[lagkeys]

You are an AMAZING conversationalist & interviewer!!! I love when hosts LET THEIR GUESTS SPEAK & HELP them flesh out their insight, rather than interrupt with something they’ve already said in 5 other videos 😂. This was EPIC. Thank you 🙏🏼

[scottshellenberger]

So thankful to Dan and John for pulling this interview off. Absolutely fascinating.

[baileybbb]

Ive been an agnostic atheist since i had a chance to choose and ive never seen a more engaging interview. What Dan said about certain world views being a social construct and just being used to assert being a part of a group really resonated with me even outside of religious topics but did help me understand the thinking inside

[shannonigans_]

Dude this interview is FASCINATING. I love learning about the history of the bible!

[brandonrickard]

This is so interesting….coming from a fundamentalist background it seems that most ppl who join churches later in life don’t feel it necessary to their faith to believe things are literally true, as opposed to those raised in it who tend to believe in an all or nothing approach to the Bible

[Madly]

It’s my new life’s goal to be able to contemplate, research, and discuss scripture with the same fascination yet emotional detachment that Dan has. He’s kind of turning scripture from something I talk exclusively with my therapist about to something I want to make the theme of next month’s trivia night

[sclackham]

I'm so happy to hear that Maklelan and David Bokovoy know each other. David Bokovoy was a huge influence in my life (as my seminary teacher) while I was in the church and Maklelan is a huge influence in my life while deconstructing mormonism.

I'm so happy you interviewed them both! Thank you so much!

(Also, apologies for using Dan McClellan's username, I found him on TikTok and Twitter)

[melissarasmussen]

Whoah!
As a member my entire life (54 yrs), this guy is blowing my mind. I was definitely taught evolution was not a viable option to explain the origins of man; the prophet was the mouth piece of God and was not questions; all the scriptures were literal and historic; your leaders knew best; homosexuals were not following the plan of creation; polygamy was going to be a system of relationships in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom (because there would be more woman then men there; ……all the dogma and more.

He had missionaries tell him the prophet was only a prophet as long as he was acting like one and was NOT always correct?! Man, he experienced a different church than myself. 🤯