Aron Ra: “Jesus Never Said He Was God”

Sharing some thoughts on a brief exchange between Aron Ra and some apologists regarding Jesus’ ostensible identification as God.

[MythVisionPodcast]

I love what you're doing online Dr. McClellan! ❤

[te]

I ran into Aron Ra in a air port and he mentioned this post, he's a pretty cool down to earth guy.

[naysneedle]

Oh man I thought Aron Ra was gonna get 'Ok let's see it' and I was scared 😂

[DryApologist]

I agree that the verse 'I and the Father are one' (10:30) does not necessarily imply that Jesus is one in essence with the Father. However, other passages in John do, such as 8:58 'Before Abraham was I am' where Jesus applies the divine name to Himself. Of course, there are other ways to interpret the verse, but given that the opponents pick up stones it implies that Jesus was claiming divinity. You can of course argue that Jesus was only claiming to bear the divine name, but it is unclear that is any different than claiming one in essence with God sense the name signified the character of the person. Of course, I know you are aware of all of this.

[bobsmith-hdzr]

Many early christian sects believed Jesus was adopted by god in the baptism. Just a normal average man before.

[Theprofessorator]

I have always compared Jesus' "oneness" with God, the same way that a husband and wife become "one" in marriage. Jesus is constantly distinguishing himself from the Father. If you think Jesus said he was God, you are reading only ink deep into your Bible.

[Hegeleze]

I don't like your explanation either. The idea of 'imposing assumptions' and needing to have univocal meanings or to be 'consistent' don't seem to be first century Jewish ideals. Now, we can argue, especially with authors like John who seem to be late and understand and borrow from Greek philosophical ideals that maybe he is importing this, but I see no need for consistency until the 3rd and 4th century. Why impose a later, very stringent hermeneutic? Keep the early and quite wild spectrum of meaning, ideals, etc. as well as the developmental structure (Paul seems to change his mind various times).

[ΠαντελήςΑδριανόςΟικονόμου]

1:56 Prayer is just communication and glorifying the Divine. So you have the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit within the Trinity that commune with each other and glorify each other from eternity's past. It was a way for Jesus to communicate with his Father and glorify Him here on Earth and vice versa.

[moonshoes]

I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.

[moorflash]

I was a christian before this, and I am now proud to say I am still a christian!

[bman]

What do you make of St. Thomas’ exclamation of, “My Lord and my God!” in John 20:28?

[fepeerreview]

1:57 "There is no other way to explain this without imposing outside assumptions..."
This is so true with so many aspects of both the Old and New Testaments. And in the vast majority of cases these assumptions are imposed _unconsciously_ by people, in order to shape "God's inspired word" to mean whatever it is they want it to mean. That there is any ambiguity at all and consequently any interpretation required at all is a powerful indicator that the Bible is the work of humans, and subject to _all_ their fallibilities.

[thebatman]

read the rest of the chapter and see what Jesus said after the pharises tried to stone him by saying that(why would they stone him ???) That would be a great time for Him to say that He didnt mean that.

[jahamilton]

Its odd that you sympathize with Ra here when if you watch the wntire debate he was very disrespectful the entire time and interrupted the opposing side far more often. Also to say hes right about Jesus not calling himself God is either out of ignorance or an exact word fallacy. He never says verbatim that hes God, but still does plenty of times. Like the famous example of Jesus saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58). Or "... understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” (John 10:38). Even the passage you go over where he says him and the father are one does in fact mean that he's God because the Jews picked up stones and told him they were stoning him BECAUSE he claimed to be God (John 10:28-33). No one should be deceived by this false teacher.

[liesandvideotape]

Considering this, I am interested to here your thoughts regarding catholic dogma on the trinity. Maybe talk about how dogma and scripture meet/clash

[justdone]

GOD and HIS Son CHRIST IMMANUEL With Us.
GOD Was With YESHUA. We Could All Have GOD With Us Through Our Savior, Son of GOD and Man, CHRIST Our Lord, if we so choose to ask CHRIST to pray to the FATHER to send Their Spirit to Our Hearts.
This is how I take it.
Love and Grace to All who read this.
🙏🙌👣 💪💞🏡 🕊️🤍

[theaxe]

Even God himself testified about Jesus being his son after he was baptized

[sheepwhoaskquestions]

“You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭48‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, ”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭23‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Is it Jesus the God human? Who supposed to be an example? Is it lawful to call one self God if so? In the people who are with him, his disciples are human so they can sin. We know God cannot sin “He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭22‬ ‭ESV‬‬ so can his followers never sent either no because of Romans 3:23 but how can we be perfect either we be perfect by repenting and asking for forgiveness

[karlu]

I like it. what do you do with jesus saying before abraham was, I Am?

[legendary]

genesis 1:1

''In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.''

This was in the Old Testament that made it clear God made everything without help all by him.

John 1:1

''In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.''

This is the New Testament and still says God made everything by him through his word.

Colossians 1:16

''The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.''

This is where it's revealed that Jesus is the Image of invisible God and he created all things.

John 14:9

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Jesus literally called himself The Father not the Son.

John 14:6

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


Revelation 1:8 Jesus answered "I am the Alpha and the Omega—the beginning and the end, ” says the Lord God. “I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come—the Almighty One.”

The bible makes it clear that Jesus is God.