Dan Mcclellan - A Historical Book of Mormon, A Matter of Faith or Fact?

In this first episode of Jack Reacts, Jackson breaks down a video from a popular LDS biblical scholar, Dan Mcclellan.

The Stick of Joseph YouTube channel seeks to make the Book of Mormon accessible to all ages by making engaging, entertaining and informative content.

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[GregFessia]

Elder Neal A. Maxwell has written: “It is the author’s opinion that all the scriptures, including the Book of Mormon, will remain in the realm of faith. Science will not be able to prove or disprove holy writ. However, enough plausible evidence will come forth to prevent scoffers from having a field day, but not enough to remove the requirement of faith. Believers must be patient during such unfolding” (Plain and Precious Things (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1983), 4.).

[zachdavis]

I really appreciate your videos. I am Catholic, but I want to learn what my LDS brothers believe. I am reading the Book of Mormon, D & C and the Pearl of Great Price. Keep up the great work!

[timalger]

Dan McKellen has expressed on other videos that he believes in the Book Mormon and our faith despite the evidence point otherwise. In fact he is an adult convert to our faith, the point of his content is just not related to his personal faith.

He just uses his account to try to present all the available and scholarly discoveries to help believers of a variety of faiths to prevent the irrational usage of false data and cherry pick scriptures to support the belittling and denigration of others.

Another big point he drives home over and over is the fact that the Bible contradicts itself so it is up to us to negotiate with the text and choose your view. There is no univocality, this I believe the point is we have to go through the spiritual process to find truth in that regard.

[brettmajeske]

Dan McClellan is talking about the difference between what can be scientifical proven and those that can not. Dan has stated he believes in the claims of the Book of Mormon, he just doesn't think that the historicity is supported by the evidence. It you are conflating the two positions.

[clinthilton]

Dan is clearly speaking as an academic here - the current body of empirical data does indeed strongly point against the BoM as being historical. Dan acknowledges that doesn't definitively prove that to be the case, but that is the overall direction the data currently points. He also acknowledges that leaning on faith is a valid approach for someone to take in this space. Clearly he finds some sort of value in LDS theology - he is an active member with a leadership calling in his ward. There is a growing number of active LDS members who do not hold to a historical BoM, and I think that is a good thing. I appreciate these nuanced views that value empirical analysis and acknowledge the practical limits of spiritual discernment. There are many ways to find meaning and value in the church that don't require assurance of some of these questionable truth claims.

[SimonDaumMusic]

I think I kind of get where Dan is comming from, which may also have to do what I have watched all of Dans videos, and know he sincerely cares about facts and truth, even if it conrtadicts his own faith, which does not mean though that he does not have that faith.

Actually, it is quite intersting, because this is the kind of scholars I trust the most. I dived a lot into biblical scholarship and noticed how literally most scholars try to bend the fats to make their own faith work, whilst approaching the bible on its own terms, opens up a much borader understanding of how things were truly meant by the original authors, which, funny enough, leads to give many, many points towards Mormonism.. For example does science agree with Joseph Smith on creation ex nihilo, solar scriptura, the inerrancy of the Bible, that God had a physical body, that he even had a wife, that Jesus never claimed to be God the Father, and so forth..

So looking closely on what Dan gvies to the world is a great set of facts about the BIble, of which I think it is one vital part of understanding the Bible correctly.

Imagine about 3000 years ago God revealed through a Prophet a truth that was considered truth for 2700 years, then suddenly some "inerrancy-dudes" came along and changed the meaning out of of secular, man made reasons (for example inventing the inerrancy to have the bible as authority above everything else to support slavery).. and now this was the new definition of what was originally meant, now claimed to be the inerrant and inspired word of God..

Now I see scholars like Dan learn all about the ancient language, the rethoric, the philosophical inflluences, and how things were origianlly meant by God. This is such a great blessing and has helped me tremendously to start loving the Bible even more..

At times it may be hard to let go of false believes, but I think this is where science and religion meet, and where the great value of having both hand in hand comes in, but also where faith, aswell as common sense find a healthy balance.

The thing is, academics will always be a changing field, just as individual believes and interpretations will differ. But here is the thing, on a spiritual level, Christ taught that we are to dicsern truth from deception by its fruits, even going as far as saying that once we know the fruit is good, we also know without any doubt that the tree is good also.

Paul made clear that these "good fruits" are neither works, miracles, faith, gifts of the spirit, or the knowing and understanding of all things. People can know all things, whether in academic ways or in spiritual ways, and yet still not know God, because all these things are worth nothing, if they not not bring forth WITHIN us the good gifts of CHARITY.

And so combining both, putting all the facts together, allowing truth to speak for itself, let the Data be above the dogma, plus discerning all things spiritually by the good fruits it brings forth within our own being, seems to me the best way to actually find truth, and know God, and know how God meant things when he first revealed them to mankind.

In that sense, I disagree with Dan that there is no Data to support the BOM, but apart from that I think he does a very vital and important work, and if all academics and religious leaders would care more about how things truly are, then to merely make things fit their own dogma, the more I think it would contribute to a better scholarship and spirituality at the same time..

Probably the most vital lesson I learned along my way is, the more wisdom and knowledge a person posesses, the more he will admidt to the fact that he does not know much at all, for he understands that only that kind of humility will prepare his heart and his mind to accept even greater truths, whilst the conviction to have already arrived at that one, final truth of things, would cut him from letting these truths into his life.

[kyleepratt]

I wish people living in the Americas would spend more time learning the actual history of Native Americans. 10's of thousands of years on these continents with their unique and diverse religions, foods, technology developments, languages, etc.

Every little bit I learn is fascinating and feels much more real than when I was so focused on the Book of Mormon.

[andrewtheawesome]

So taking this approach, how do we view the Quaran? It’s just as much a matter of faith to its believers. There are even many who have had spiritual experiences where God has guided them towards the Quaran and Islam and away from Christianity and the Bible. How do we disprove the Quaran if it is a matter of faith and revelation as well?

[ApenasMaisGames]

I think Dan was trying to say that there’s no direct evidence that proves the historicity of the BOM. Yes, you can find some traditions from ancient cultures in americas that match the ones described in the scriptures but that does not prove that the story actually happen and as a scholar he cannot take that approach to make a conclusion. But as he mentions at one point of interview, the purpose of a bible (OT, NT, BOM…) is to get you closer to God, not really being historical.

[LifeAfterBelief]

I’m curious about your take on Nahom and why it’s such a strong bullseye.

Seems to me it’s like a book mentions a guy named Jeremy was buried by a place with lots of resources. Then, we find a graveyard with the close name of Jerry in it, and close to it is a Costco. Seems like you’d find dozens of these combos throughout the US.

But, I want to hear more about your Nahom evidence, so I’ll look for a video on your channel and see if I’m under selling it. Because the for and against stuff I’ve studied about it left me thinking it was a nothing-burger. Well, maybe not a nothing-burger, but a frozen burrito. :)

Who knows. I could be wrong on this one, so I’ll revisit it.

Thanks.

[pigetstuck]

Christians should take the data into account. Spiritual revelation must be tethered to reality.

[belisariobenites]

Jackson, a great video. You are reminding us to return to the basics. You and your brother are doing a fantastic job. Thank you so much.

[SiumanS]

Amen and Thank you for boldly testifying the words of God❣️

[kendarcie]

@StickofJoseph Do you maintain that the towns/places/events of the BOM actually existed in the physical world at some point in time?

[ClintThomsen]

When I saw the notification, for a second I thought you interviewed this cat. I couldn’t imagine Dan going on a faithful channel.

[GarySaint-xmtr]

Solid solo presentation Jackson
Well done! I wish I could speak on eveything restored gospel for one day. Almost no one who listened to me would say the Book of Mormon, D&C and everything else about the restored gospel are not true. The Revelation 12 sign by itself logically shows it is true, and many many other evidences.

[Hyrum_Barlong]

Great video Jack!

Though I'll stay pseudonymous here, I actually met you and got to work alongside you for a while a couple of years ago, and I've got to say I'm super impressed with what you and your brother are doing. I never saw you as the Youtuber type, but you've clearly got a knack for it.

Keep up the good work!

[britanniakennett]

I respect Dan Mcklean and really appreciate his point of view. Hr has strengthened my faith in a data perspective of the scriptures. I’d actually really love to see an interview with him on your podcast! I think y’all would have a lot to learn from each other 😊

[cinnamondan]

Most scholars do not consider the Gospels to be first hand accounts of Christ including faithful scholars. This is especially true in the Catholic Church from which I hail. The idea that they are first hand accounts is generally taken on faith rather than scholarship. The same applies to the BOM. Most scholars do not believe the BOM is an account written by ancient Jews who came to the Americas; they believe it is a 19th century narrative. Even your brethren in the Community of Christ, a faith based organisation, have come to this conclusion.

[jeffwilson]

All of life is a gift. When we are born we don't look at the world and say why was I prevented this for all eternity. Then when we go to school and learn to communicate, we don't say why was I prevented this for so long. When we learn a sport, we don't say why am I just now acquainted with this. In considering the things in life collectively, we don't say why is everything coming to me as if I have been denied all the while. Instead we say wow, thank you God for so much.

If true religion must be tangible, then we and our lives are true religion. And there is no God but us. When I met the missionaries and Gods spirit came to me, I didn't say why was I forgotten and prevented all the years till now. Instead I marveled that God lives, and more so that I could remember him or even had forgotten him in the first place. Life in God is made more succinct by life without him. I think it was Eve who said something like, were it not for my iniquity, I couldn't know the joy of my redemption. My testimony from God is similar to Eve's proclamation.

I view the lack of tangible proof of the Church as a cloud, likewise some of the questionable former practices such as polygamy and priesthood restrictions to blacks. People look at this cloud as at the Church being worthy of mockery, derision, and dismissal. But I see it as Gods means to advance his work of the gathering and salvation of Israel, while sifting out the faithlessness of those who see with their eyes and judge with their secular learnings, rather than with their spirits and hearts.

If God only lives thru our traditions and rehearsals, then he does not live. But he lives none the less, and despite our meager efforts to keep him in remembrance for our own consolation. So we carry his work forward for the privilege of our participation, that we might become like our God some day. We love him, miss him, honor him and glorify him thru tears and storms.